MINUTES OF THE
TUESDAY, JULY 24, 2007
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner St. John, Commissioner Siira, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Correll and Commissioner Nowak. Commissioners Sokol, Kopplin and Grabowski were excused. Also present were Jeff Fortin, Planner, and Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop.
Commissioner Dickmann moved to approve the minutes of the June 26, 2007, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The minutes were approved as submitted.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Fortin updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the July 17, 2007 Common Council meeting. There were no comments or concerns from the Commissioners.
Sign Appeal Hearing – EZ Money Payday Loans
2345 W. Ryan Road
Tax Key No.: 903-9000
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting a variance from Oak Creek Municipal Code Section 17.0706(i)(l), which states that shopping centers and multi-tenant buildings may provide one ground or pole sign and may also provide one wall sign or one canopy sign for each business in the building.
Mr. Fortin swore in Mr. Don Numerdor 1827 W. Glendale Avenue, who spoke in favor of the sign. No one spoke in opposition of the sign.
Mayor Bolender called three times and then closed the public hearing.
Sign Appeal – EZ Money Payday Loans
Commissioner Siira questioned if the proposed sign on the west side would be identical to the sign on the north side. Mr. Numerdor stated that was the case.
Commissioner Dickmann pointed out this business did not depend on drive-by business and did not see the need for the additional sign.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if this request would fall in line with the proposed ordinance changes. Mr. Fortin explained under the proposed ordinance we would require all multi-tenant buildings to come in with a planned sign program which would spell out the standards for the entire center. The language in the draft would allow for the Plan Commission to allow for end cap tenants to have an additional sign if they felt it fit in with the building.
Commissioner Correll felt all strip malls would ask for end cap tenant signs in the future. Commissioner Siira commented when this building was originally discussed signs were not envisioned on the ends of the building. Commissioner Correll questioned what type of sign plan could be brought forward without knowing who or even how many tenants would be in these buildings.
Mayor Bolender agreed with Commissioner Dickmann and did not feel they would need the extra sign for this business.
Commissioner Dickmann moved that the request for a variance for an extra sign for the EZ Money Payday Loans at 2345 W. Ryan Road be denied.
Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, Dickmann; aye, St. John; aye, Siira; aye, Bolender; aye, Correll; nay, Nowak; nay. The motion to deny carries.
Sign Appeal Hearing – Guardian Credit Union
7801 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 782-9051
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting a variance from Section 17.0706(i) of the Sign Ordinance to allow for two Guardian logo signs. The signs will be placed on both sides of an architectural pillar at the front entrance to the building.
Mr. Fortin swore in Mr. Minorek, 309 N. Water Street, Milwaukee who spoke in favor of the signs. No one spoke in opposition of the signs.
Mayor Bolender called three times and closed the public hearing.
Sign Appeal – Guardian Credit Union
Commissioner St. John moved that the Plan Commission approve the variance to allow two logo signs on the architectural pillar for Guardian Credit Union at 7801 S. Howell Avenue.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Sign Appeal – Menard’s
6800 S. 27th Street
Tax Key No.: 737-9040
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting a variance from Oak Creek Municipal Code, Section 17.0706(e), which states that pole signs shall not exceed twenty five (25) feet in height and shall not exceed 100 square feet per side. The variance would allow Menards to replace an electronic messageboard on a legal non-conforming sign.
Mr. Fortin swore in Mr. Dave Shannon, 11096 61st Street, MN. Spoke in favor of the sign and explained the reason Menards needed to replace the current message center and also replace it with a smaller upgraded LED sign. No one spoke in opposition of the sign.
Mayor Bolender called three times and then closed the public hearing.
Sign Appeal – Menard’s
Commissioner St. John questioned if they could get the overall height of the sign reduced by ten feet. Mr. Shannon could not answer that question for Menard’s but would be willing to check with them and get back to the Commission. Commissioner St. John would like to see Menard’s come into compliance with their sign along 27th Street at this time.
Commissioner Dickmann would like to see the messageboard replaced and agreed they needed a new messageboard
Mayor Bolender asked Mr. Shannon to go back to Menard’s and ask them to reduce the overall height of the sign to 15 feet. The appeal was directed held until Mr. Shannon could speak with Menard’s.
Official Map Amendment – Northwest ¼ of Section 16
640 E. Darcy Drive & 730 E. Forest Hill Avenue
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission this item was held at the May 22, 2007 Plan Commission meeting for the applicant to work with the neighbor to the east and come up with a roadway layout that would still connect to the officially mapped extension of S. Shepard Avenue. The applicant is now proposing to shift the officially mapped extension of E. Darcy Drive to the south while still connecting it with S. Shepard Avenue.
Mr. Mike St. John stated he was asked to move the road and that was what he did. Mr. Fortin pointed out that by moving the road so far to the south they may make it cost prohibitive for Mr. Yang to develop his property because he would not be able to get enough lots to pay for the road. Mr. Lu Yang, 2025 15th Street, Milwaukee, commented he did not care what Mr. St. John did with the road as long as the Council would all him to build a house on his property.
Mr. Fortin explained the issue with Mr. Yang building a house on his property would be that there are already a maximum of fifteen lots on the dead end street along Bonita. He can’t construct a home on this property unless he were to extend the road all the way through or if the Council would approve a certified survey map converting his parcel from an outlot to a buildable lot which would go against the City’s policy of fifteen lots on a dead end street.
Mayor Bolender questioned what Mr. St. John was planning on doing with his lot. Mr. St. John said he was going to have to sell it if he couldn’t build on it because it would be garbage without being able to build a house. Both Mr. St. John and Mr. Yang would like to build a house on their lots. Mr. Fortin explained Mr. St. John’s problem was the officially mapped street goes right through where he wants to put his house. The problem for Mr. Yang is that the property he owns is an unbuildable outlot because there are already fifteen lots on Bonita which is a dead end street.
Commissioner Correll commented the alternative was to force the road through at someone’s expense and jam “x” amount of houses versus the two houses. Mr. Fortin explained that is the way the second point of access would be established. Commissioner Correll commented if that was established we would end up with more small lots and more small houses. Not looking at an alternative would give the City something they don’t want.
Mayor Bolender would like to see the two gentlemen build their houses instead of putting in a road with small lots and small houses.
Commissioner St. John clarified what he was hearing was they were in favor of the cul-de-sac and moving the road completely off of the St. John property. Council would have to give a waiver of the fifteen lot rule or Mr. Yang would have to wait until some of the other roads get built to get his second access.
Commissioner Correll recommended approving the layout and giving the Council an opportunity to look at the request. Mayor Bolender felt that was a good idea because he would like to see the two owners be able to build their homes on bigger lots.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop commented he understood how they thought they would be able to get along and agree to just two homes on these parcels but staff is involved in a situation where the owners stated they would agree and never come back before the City with a request for changes. The streets were designed to look out into the future and he feels they should be maintained or thought about long and hard before they change the design which may have long term ramifications on access and development of other parts.
Mayor Bolender would like to see the two have houses in the City of Oak Creek but there are a ton of problems and expense for each.
Mr. Bob Prichett, 307 E. Kendale Drive, explained he owned the parcel of land to the west of Mr. St. John and would like to build a side by side. He would be interested in going in partnership with Mr. St. John on the laterals if they were allowed by the City.
Mayor Bolender directed the item held until the owners sat with City staff to work out something were they all could build homes.
Landscape & Lighting Plan – Oak Creek-Franklin Joint School District East Middle School
9330 S. Shepard Avenue
Tax Key No.: 873-9978
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval of the site and building plans for the new East Middle School located at 9330 S. Shepard Avenue.
Commissioner St. John moved that the Plan Commission approve the landscaping and lighting plans for East Middle School located at 9330 S. Shepard Avenue, subject to the final landscaping plans being reviewed and approved by the City Forester.
Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Special Exception Request – Branded Steer
1299 W. College Avenue
Tax Key No.: 717-9002
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting a special exception from the six-month moratorium on electronic messageboard signs to allow them to add a 21.6 square foot electronic messageboard onto their existing pole at 1299 W. College Avenue.
Mr. Bruce Moore, 7994 Lake Pointe Drive, Franklin, commented he was adding a totally new sign on College Avenue not just a new messageboard. Mr. Fortin stated the proposed additional pole sign would be allowed.
Commissioner St. John questioned if the height of the sign conformed to the ordinance. Mr. Fortin stated it would comply with the ordinance.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the proposed height of the sign would meet the new sign proposal. Mr. Fortin stated it would meet the 25 foot high allowable height.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop questioned if the pole for the new sign would be in the present driveway. Mr. Moore stated it would be near the end of the parking stall. Mr. Fortin stated it would fit in there but the hanging part of the sign would bump out into the driveway so they would have to design something around it. Assistant Fire Chie Krudop expressed concern for the post holding the sign being in the driveway and blocking the fire access. Mr. Fortin would work with Mr. Moore to make sure it would not obstruct the fire access for the building.
Commissioner Dickmann moved that the Plan Commission acknowledge and accept the messageboard as presented on the new sign be approved with the idea that they will be able to obtain a sign and that the readerboard will comply with the new ordinance.
Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Zoning Text Amendment – Metal Roof restrictions for residential buildings
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the Board of Appeals was requesting that the Plan Commission and Common Council consider amending the zoning ordinance to allow for decorative metal roof materials on principal residential buildings.
Mr. John Barth, Zoning Board of Appeals, commented the Board has had a request for the metal roof and they felt the Plan Commission should consider changing the Zoning Ordinance to allow for some of the new metal roof materials.
Commissioner Siira questioned if the language was a bit to restrictive and thought the Commission might want to consider allowing standing seam as a secondary architectural element.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if this would open up the door to the plastic roofing materials. Commissioner St. John commented it would only allow metal roofing materials.
Commissioner Siira moved that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that the Zoning Ordinance be amended to allow for decorative metal roofing that mimics approved roof materials in appearance, color, texture, and standing seam metal roofing would be acceptable in roofing applications in secondary roofing elements and function for principal residential buildings in the A-1, Agricultural Zoning District, the ER, Equestrian Residential District, and the Rs-1, Rs-2, Rs-3, Rs-4, Single Family Zoning Districts.
Commissioner Correll seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Zoning Text Amendment- Chapter 17.0501(b), Accessory Structures
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission staff was requesting a zoning text amendment stating the need for a building permit for a garage or shed less than 120 square-feet in area.
Commissioner St. John moved that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that the Zoning Ordinance be amended to state detached garages, gazebos, garden or utility sheds are required the issuance of a building permit regardless of size and subject to current accessory structure regulations, after a public hearing.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds.
Roll call, Dickmann; aye, St. John; aye, Siira; aye, Bolender; nay, Correll; nay, Nowak; nay. The motion to approve fails.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned the cost of a permit. Mr. Fortin explained there was no cost for the permit but they are required to apply for a permit regardless of size but the Code says you don’t have to. Mayor Bolender did not want to hire another building inspector to inspect backyard garages. Commissioner St. John explained the intent was to continue the practice of having an application to make sure people are not placing the sheds within the setbacks which generates complaints.
Commissioner Correll did not want to have to get a permit for a little gazebo for his backyard.
Commissioner St. John explained a lot of people do not know where their easements are or what the setbacks are for their property. Mayor Bolender did not want to make a new rule because of one letter complaining about a 120 square-foot shed.
Commissioner Dickmann asked for clarification if a permit was required at this time even though it was not written. Mr. Fortin explained at this time they don’t charge them for a permit they just want to see the location of the shed. If it is an accessory structure it can not be placed within ten feet or your residence.
Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, agreed with Mayor Bolender that a permit should not be required and that there were to many rules and regulations.
Zoning Text Amendment – S. 27th Street Mixed Use Neighborhood Overlay Front Yard Setbacks
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission staff was requesting that the S. 27th Street Mixed Use Neighborhood Overlay Zoning District be amended to reflect the twenty-five (25) foot setbacks originally intended by the Common Council in 2005.
Commissioner Dickmann moved that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that the Zoning Ordinance be amended to require a minimum front setback of 25 feet from the right-of-way for principal non-residential structures in the S. 27th Street Mixed Overlay Zoning District, after a public hearing.
Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Zoning Text Amendment – Sign Ordinance Revisions
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission staff had been presenting various sign ordinance issues and possible amendments to the City’s sign ordinance. Staff had taken the Plan Commission recommendations and comments and made several amendments to the City’s Sign Ordinance for Plan Commission’s review.
Mayor Bolender suggested requiring business’s within the City of Oak Creek to turn off their signs at a designated time. It would add a little bit of class to the City and conserve energy.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop suggested having business’s turn off their signs one hour after closing and not be turned back on until one hour before opening. Commissioner Nowak questioned how that would affect Fire’s ability to find locations at night. A.C. Krudop did not feel it would be a problem. Mayor Bolender did not think any readerboard or sign did anything to make the City safer.
Commissioner Correll liked the idea of turning them off but was struggling with the idea of turning them off one hour after close. He suggested signs be turned off at midnight if they were not open for business. He felt they needed to find a happy medium.
Commissioner Nowak questioned what 27th Street would look like if Oak Creek was required to turn off all of its signs and Franklin was all lit up. Mayor Bolender stated Franklin would not be lit up because they were talking about the same thing. If 27th Street becomes an issue they could exempt them and light them up. Commissioner Correll commented it would only be a problem if you made it too early.
Commissioner St. John questioned if this would exclude Christmas decorations. Mayor Bolender stated it would not include Christmas decorations.
Commissioner Correll suggested researching the issue and seeing what other cities were doing.
Mr. Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, commented this was exactly what the City needed. Upper class areas were all quiet with out any business signs flashing at night.
Mayor Bolender questioned what Jim Lindsey, reporter, thought of the proposal. Mr. Lindsey, 2251 N. 106th Street, felt it was a great idea with a lot of communities going green these days. Turning signs off at ten or midnight for businesses that were closed would be a great idea.
Commissioner St. John commented the way the ordinance was drafted this would not fit in because it would grandfather in all old signs and businesses would say I don’t have a timer and they don’t have to comply until such time as they put in a new sign or modify their old sign. It could not be done in the context the way this ordinance is being done it would have to be another ordinance. Mr. Fortin explained they could reword the ordinance to allow for the change. His only concern would be enforcement of the ordinance and thought it may have to be the police that would have to do the compliance checks and inform the Zoning Administrator.
Commissioner Siira commented on page 5 item h it read illuminated window signs advertising the name of the business or principal services offered shall count toward the maximum number. He thought it was going to read any window sign. He would like to see illuminated stricken and any window sign would count towards total signage. Mr. Fortin questioned if it would count even it was advertising. Commissioner Siira stated that was they way he intended it to read. Commissioner St. John commented everyone intended for it to apply to the existing ones that are nonconforming. Mr. Fortin stated he could work something in that stated all window signs must be in compliance with the new ordinance by a certain date.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the way the ordinance was written would it reduce the number of variance requests. Mr. Fortin explained it would in some situations such as large wall sign requests. The planned sign plan program should help eliminate some requests. Commissioner Dickmann questioned if it would help to raise the cost from $100 to $250 or some other number. Mr. Fortin commented they could take a look at the fiscal analysis to see how much it costs for staff time and make the fee comparable.
Commissioner Correll questioned how many variance requests they were going to get from businesses who wanted their lights on 24/7. Mr. Fortin commented he would do some research to see if they could control what could come forward as a variance.
Mayor Bolender directed this item held for further changes.
Commissioner Dickmann moved to adjourn. Commissioner St. John seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 8:33 p.m.