MINUTES OF THE
TUESDAY, JUNE 26, 2007
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner St. John, Commissioner Sokol, Commissioner Kopplin, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Grabowski, and Commissioner Nowak. Commissioners Siira and Correll were excused. Also present were Jeff Fortin, Planner, and Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop.
Commissioner Kopplin moved to approve the minutes of the June 12, 2007, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The minutes were approved as submitted.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Fortin updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the June 19, 2007 Common Council meeting. There were no comments or concerns from the Commissioners.
Mayor Bolender and the Commission decided to cancel the meeting on July 10, 2007 rather than reschedule because there was only one application.
Sign Appeal – Oak Creek Urgent Care
8261 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 813-9009-004
Mr. Fortin reminded the Commission at the April 24, 2007 meeting the Commission placed the item on hold to allow the landlord to submit an overall sign program for the entire Howell Oaks Retail Center.
The idea with the sign plan is if a tenant did come in with a request for a variance the sign plan would specify where it would have to be located. You would not want to approve variances for all of the signs without knowing what they were going to look like. Commissioner St. John felt there should just be a sign plan that would state the maximum amount of signage.
Commissioner Dickmann thought the idea of the sign plan would be to nail down a specific sign plan that states the number of signs that would be approved for the development. He did not feel they should have to keep seeing variances come before the Commission because they have more important things to do.
Mr. Michael DeMichele, Willow Tree Development, could live with the restriction of no signs on the ends but questioned if he was to get a larger tenant on the end cap would he be able to give him three signs for the front, back and sides? A larger tenant would take enough space in the front that there would not be a need for the three front signs. Mayor Bolender stated the ordinance states in no instance may any one tenant be allowed more than two walls signs and if that is what the rules are that is what will be followed. Mr. Fortin explained that was the recommendation as far as a concept plan for this overall sign package. Under the ordinance each tenant gets one wall sign. What Mr. DeMichele is asking for is for the end cap to have three signs and staff thought it would be more equitable if each tenant got two signs. The end cap tenant could put one on the front and one on the back or the side. Mr. DeMichele was concerned with the drive-up and felt they may need a sign over the drive-up indicating that was the drive-up. With the new road in the back going to Woodman’s it seems to make some sense to have some signage in the back.
Commissioner St. John commented he was hoping to see a sign plan that would work better with the architecture of the building. Mr. DeMichele explained the architecture was hurting them somewhat with the signs but to keep the look all the signs would be placed at the same level. Commissioner St. John felt the plan should be put on hold until Mr. DeMichele could come up with a better solution for signage to work with the architecture of the building. Mr. DeMichele did not want to make it harder for Oak Creek Urgent Care to get their signs. Mr. Fortin explained if the Commission was comfortable they could send the sign plan back and consider where Oak Creek Urgent Care wants their variance at this time and look at the sign plan at a later date.
Mr. DeMichele was willing to have the plan approved as is and believes there are things he can do with the existing sign to make it read better.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if the drive-up sign would count as a sign. Mr. Fortin stated it would be a traffic directional sign.
Commissioner Grabowski stated there was access to the building from the east side of the building. Mr. DeMichele stated that was the case but there was a major drive to Woodman’s behind the building which is the reason for the reconfiguring of the signage.
Commissioner St. John questioned if there was a minimum size letter. Mr. DeMichele stated there was not one given because one was never asked for. Commissioner St. John stated it was part of the visibility issue.
Commissioner Dickmann would like to see a developer bring in when requested a sign plan that shows placement of the signs based on the architecture and should be brought in such a manner that they do not have to look at variances in the future.
Mr. DeMichele commented it was his understanding that is what they were doing at this time. Once this plan is approved they will be able to just go forward with it as long as it meets the sign plan.
Commissioner St. John moved that the Plan Commission approve the Howell Oaks overall sign plan subject to the condition that individual tenants are permitted two wall signs.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds.
Commissioner Sokol questioned the reasoning behind the 50.7 number. Mr. Fortin explained that was the size of the Oak Creek Urgent Care sign itself. The actual sign plan has general square footage for the signs based on where it is placed on the building and what would make sense for that area.
Commissioner Sokol questioned if that was for the front of the building or the west side of the building. Mr. Fortin stated it was for all sides of the building as specified in the sign plan.
Commissioner Sokol felt a 50.7 square foot sign was to big because it was not the primary sign. He would hate to see precedent having 50 square foot signs every time another building pops up. Mr. DeMichele commented if the motion approves the sign in the back of the building would be 36.4 square feet.
Mayor Bolender commented it was a flat piece of land in the back and the distance was large. If a business doesn’t advertise it is done. Commissioner Sokol felt there was a difference having a sign that was facing the street and having the setback of the building from the street and accommodating that and having a building that just happens to be next to a parking lot for another building and because of that being allowed to put up a 50 square foot sign.
Commissioner Dickmann would like to add that the end tenants are only allowed two signs and that in item number 5 remove the sentence: “Color must be off white, per specifications available from Landlord.”
First and second concur.
Roll call, Dickmann; aye, St. John; aye, Sokol; nay, Kopplin; aye, Bolender; aye, Grabowski; aye, Nowak; aye. The motion to approve carries.
Architectural Review – Oak Creek Municipal Services Building Addition and Renovation
800 W. Puetz Road
Tax Key No.: 829-9000-001
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the City of Oak Creek was requesting approval of building architecture only for the addition and renovation of the Oak Creek Municipal Services Building. There are actually three alternatives/phases being proposed for this building and the final decision on how to proceed will be up to the Common Council and will be based on budget considerations.
Mr. Wayne St. John, City Engineer presented a short video to the Commission depicting the architecture for the proposed building. Stormwater is a problem for this project so they are going to move the stormwater off to the west which gets it up the hill without pumping it and the detention ponds will be to the north. The parking is on the hill because it will make a better neighbor than the building. There is quite a buffer zone with the subdivision to the west.
Mr. Matt Long, Angus Young Architects, explained the types of materials that would be used on the exterior of the proposed building.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if they were going to be renovating the outside of the existing building and blend in a new entrance way because there is a lot of glass. Mr. St. John commented the glass was not insulated and what was being shown is the blue roof and some of it will be incorporated and it will all be shops. It will be redone to match the rest of the architecture of the rest of the walls.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the inside of the building would be renovated as well. Mr. St. John commented the building is structurally sound and will stay as it is except for the HVAC, electrical and plumbing will be redone. Sprinklers will also be added as required.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned the different alternatives and the cost of each of the alternatives. Mr. St. John stated he would like to speak about it but at this time they were doing an architectural review of the building. The alternates were set up to give the Council a wide range of financial choices.
Commissioner Sokol questioned the reasoning behind the different alternates. Mr. St. John explained the alternates were purely financial based on what the City could afford and when.
Commissioner Nowak moved that the Plan Commission approve the building architecture for the Oak Creek Municipal Services building located at 800 W. Puetz Road subject to the applicant returning to the Plan Commission with detailed site, building, landscaping and lighting plans prior to the issuance of building permits.
Commissioner Grabowski seconds.
Roll call, all voted aye with the exception of Commissioner St. John who abstained. The motion to approve carries.
Plan Review – Butcher Block Walk-in Freezer
9340 S. Chicago Road
Tax Key No.: 869-9959
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval for the installation of an external 16’x36’ walk-in freezer for the Butcher Block Meat Market. The freezer would be installed behind an existing storage shed at the north end of the property and would be set back 5 feet from the property line.
Commissioner Kopplin commented she agreed with staffs recommendations and felt the vines on the existing fence screened the area from Otjen Park and with the roof line the freezer would not be seen from the street.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned the setback from Otjen Park. Mr. Mike Toman, Butcher Block Meat Market, stated the freezer would be setback five feet from the park and would be located to the east of an existing building which is already at four to five feet of the fence. Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the freezer would be similar to the existing building. Mr. Toman explained the outside finish would be a typical silver finish. Mr. Toman would not like to put up a screen fence but would do so if the Commission required a screen fence.
Commissioner Dickmann commented with the DiCarlo freezer it could be seen from the parking lot and this does not seem to be the same situation. Mr. Fortin explained since it would be so close to the right-of-way and it would be visible from one spot the fence would not need to enclose the entire freezer but just screen it from public view while driving past.
Commissioner St. John questioned if this would be a free standing building. Mr. Toman stated that was the case there would not be footings just a free floating concrete slab. The slab will be at grade. Commissioner St. John questioned if there was a choice in exterior materials for the cooler. Mr. Toman stated there were not any options for the cooler and that was why he was willing to put up a screen fence.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if there was a way to get around having Mr. Toman spend $1500 on a screen fence such as different materials. Mr. Toman commented if he had to put up a fence he would like to have something that looked half way decent.
Mayor Bolender left the room.
Commissioner Dickmann moved that the Plan Commission approve the walk-in freezer plans at 9340 S. Chicago Road subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Plan Review – Oak Creek Police Running Path
301 W. Ryan Road (Oak Creek Police Station)
Tax Key No.: 906-9026
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the Oak Creek Police Department was requesting approval of a gravel running path around the perimeter of their property at 301 W. Ryan Road. The path would have a limestone surface and would be one half mile long.
Mayor Bolender returned to the room.
Police Chief Tom Bauer explained the reasoning behind the paths use and the reason for the gravel versus mulch on the path. He explained the cost benefits of the smaller gravel on the path.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the path was for public use or only for the Police Department. Chief Bauer stated it was intended only for the use of the Police Department but at this time it would be open to the public until they see what their experience is with the path. If it is an unfavorable experience they could certainly eliminate the public access to the path.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned who would be responsible for the up-keep of the path. Chief Bauer stated they have one part-time maintenance man that would be available to trim the edges of the path each year. They also have a part-time high school worker during the summer. Commissioner Grabowski questioned how the dust would be controlled if they were allowed to use the gravel versus the mulch. Chief Bauer explained it would be a very small traffic bond and it would bond together and would create much less dust. Commissioner Grabowski questioned where the employees were currently training for fitness. Chief Bauer explained they do have treadmills available in the cardio room at this time but they would like the officers to train with the elements that they will be working in. Commissioner Grabowski questioned the setback for the path. Chief Bauer stated the track would be about five feet from the lot line to maximize the size of the track. Commissioner Grabowski expressed concern for future building in the area. Chief Bauer commented the path was certainly considered temporary and there would be minimal investment.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if asset forfeiture funds could be used for a path that would be open to the general public. Chief Bauer explained the primary use of the track would be for police officers with a secondary benefit for the neighborhood. This project would not be done without the asset forfeiture funds. Commissioner Kopplin did not believe the track should be made available for public use.
Commissioner Sokol questioned the running direction of the track. Chief Bauer explained they would start at one end and then they could come along the sidewalk in the front. He would like to have a gravel path run along the sidewalk for running but that would not be permitted. Commissioner Sokol would prefer not to see officers in training running along Ryan Road.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if there would be any future lighting requirements. Chief Bauer commented they had an idea of using low voltage solar lighting for the second and third shift officers. They will need to see what the needs of the staff are in the future. There would be minimal or no lighting affect on the neighbors.
Commissioner Grabowski commented they needed to be cognisant if there were areas with low spots that they are addressed and they are not creating a problem.
Commissioner Sokol questioned if they have thought about adding a double back loop. Chief Bauer thought that may be an option. Commissioner St. John commented the only place that would be feasible would be around the detention pond and he was not sure there was enough flat area. Commissioner Sokol would rather stay on the gravel track and not run out onto the sidewalk. Chief Bauer commented he would talk with Mike Simmons but he would not add a loop near Ryan Road because he did not want to call any attention to the path than was necessary.
Mayor Bolender commented if traffic bond was used eventually the water would wash the dust through and they would end up with the basic stone. If a decorative stone was used after the first rain the dust would not be an issue. The question of lighting was ridiculous. Officers should be running on things other than asphalt because that is what they would encounter on the job. He did not want the public to have access to the obstacle course on the rear or the property. He would also like to see the path reworked so they would not have to run on the sidewalk.
Commissioner St. John would not support gravel but would support decorative stone.
Commissioner Kopplin moved that the Plan Commission approve a decorative stone running path for the Oak Creek Police Department located at 301 W. Ryan Road with the alternative of a looped path to be looked into.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Sign Plan Review – Guardian Credit Union
7801 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 782-9051
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval of an overall sign program for the multi-tenant center at 7801 W. Howell Avenue. The plan entails one main monument sign, one wall sign for each tenant and traffic directional signs. They are also requesting approval of a special exception to the six month moratorium on changeable copy signs.
Commissioner St. John commented this was such a nice building to put up all of those tenant signs. He questioned if there was a maximum exposure on tenant signs. Mr. Fortin explained there was only space for four tenants. The sign plan presented would only allow for four tenant signs.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the Guardian Credit Union sign would pose any problems within the vision triangle. Mr. Fortin explained it was a wall sign and did not pose any problems for the vision triangle. The monument sign was set away from the access drive and should not be a visibility problem except from one parking stall. Commissioner Grabowski felt it was important to have consistent lettering. Mr. Fortin explained to be consistent they require the four tenant signs to be raceway mounted and will have to have channel letters with black returns to match the Guardian Credit Union signs.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the post and panel signs were included in this approval. Mr. Fortin explained they were directional signs and would be part of the overall sign plan. Directional signs are permitted as part of the code. There are not any restrictions on the number of directional signs.
Commissioner Nowak expressed concern for approving a changeable copy sign that may need to be changed after the sign code changes are approved. Mr. Fortin explained the applicant is aware they may need to make changes to the sign when the new changes are adopted.
Commissioner St. John commented he would prefer to see the tenant signs in the masonry band at the top of the building.
Mr. Dennis Smith, Kiefer Sign Company, commented Guardian Credit Union is aware of the moratorium on changeable copy signs and will comply with the Code changes. The changeable copy that they are showing is less of an investment than a message center.
Commissioner Sokol questioned if the full package was being approved. Mr. Fortin stated that was correct and that was what the Commission had wanted when they approved the site plan over a year ago.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the applicant was able to comply with the future changes
that may be implemented. Mr. Smith commented the sign is designed that the only change they would have to make is to turn the upper panel into a tenant panel which would give the tenants more space.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the applicant would be willing to wait until the sign code changes were approved. Mr. Smith stated Guardian would like the signs up within the next month.
Commissioner St. John questioned if the font and color of the tenant signs would be the same on the monument as on the building. Mr. Smith stated they would probably match the sign that they put on the building color wise.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if for uniformity they require that all fonts and colors be the same for the sign program. Mr. Fortin suggested requiring blue panels to match the sign with white lettering or white panels with blue letters for the tenants on the monument but let them have the corporate lettering on the building.
Commissioner Kopplin would prefer to see the same lettering and colors on the building also. Mr. Smith commented some businesses cannot change the colors of the sign because they are corporate colors.
Commissioner Nowak questioned if Mr. Smith was comfortable excepting the exposure that he may have putting up any signage that would have to be adjusted to the new ordinance. Mr. Smith stated he was comfortable with that.
Mr. Fortin explained all metal returns need to be the same color to set a theme for the signage on the building.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if Mr. Fortin had any ideas that would make the tenant signs appear aesthetically better. Mr. Fortin suggested putting all four of the signs on the brick belt line seems like a nice idea but then you would be cramming four signs in a smaller area.
Mr. Smith explained the reason for having the signs above the windows was because it was a brick area that was patchable and was above the ceiling for electrical and if it was higher it would be above the roof and patching would be more of a problem.
Commissioner Sokol questioned if the proposed ordinance talked about the square footage for tenant signs. Mr. Fortin explained there was a moratorium on changeable copy signs at this time. There is not a moratorium on wall signs so the walls signs would be grandfathered in after they are built if there should ever be changes to the sign code. Commissioner Sokol questioned if there was a square footage that the tenant signs were being limited to. Mr. Fortin explained they are trying to look at it a different way based on the tenant front foot. The current ordinance would allow them up to 100 square feet which would not look appropriate in this location. Commissioner Sokol would like a set amount of square footage for the tenant signs allowed on this building in the approval.
Mr. Smith explained as part of the sign package they have brought forward the Guardian Credit corporate sign package and are showing the locations for the tenant signage. They will be made in the same similar fashion but there are not any square footage amounts at this time because they are not asking for 100 square feet for each tenant as the ordinance states they are allowed.
Commissioner Sokol proposed the applicant agree to meet the requirements of the ordinance when it is approved or give them a square footage amount to approve at this time. Mr. Fortin explained the Guardian sign was 100 square feet so a 50 foot cap on the tenant signs would be appropriate. Commissioners Sokol and St. John felt 50 square feet was too generous.
Commissioner Grabowski commented when the Cornerstone building went up it was a great looking building but she was disappointed with the signage. She did not feel the building needed signage for each tenant. The monument sign would tell people the tenants and the building name or address will direct people to the building.
Mr. Smith would like to be able to get approval for the Guardian Credit Union signs and then return to the Commission with the tenant signage at a later date.
Commissioner St. John moved that the Plan Commission approve the overall sign program and grants the special exception to the 6-month moratorium on changeable copy signs for the Guardian Credit Union multi-tenant building located at 7801 S. Howell Avenue excluding all tenant signage subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Grabowski seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The motion to approve carries.
Planned Unit Development – Oak Creek Hospitality Park (Wisco Hotel Group)
6440 & 6466 S. 13th Street
717-9990-001 & 717-9988
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission at the June 12, 2007 meeting the Plan Commission recommended that the Common Council rezone the properties at 6440 and 6466 S. 13th Street from B-4, Highway Business & M-1, Manufacturing to B-4/M-1 (PUD), Highway Business/Manufacturing Planned Unit Development to allow for the development of two hotels. The PUD would also allow Edgerton Contractors to relocate portions of their existing facility towards the eastern portion of the development.
Commissioner St. John moved to recommend to the Common Council that the attached conditions and restrictions for the Oak Creek Hospitality Park are adopted as part of the conditional use permit for the properties located at 6440 & 6446 S. 13th Street after a public hearing.
Commissioner Nowak seconds.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if item 6A was applicable to this situation. Mr. Fortin explained it would be necessary to form an association if a common area was used for the stormwater pond.
Commissioner Nowak questioned the 30 foot sign. Mr. Fortin commented a 30 foot sign was requested but considering we don’t allow 30 foot pole signs or monument signs staff felt it would be excessive.
Mr. Todd Winkler explained they were asking for an exception because of the flood fringe and the floodway that has set the hotels back further than they initially had wanted. They were hoping for larger signs so they would not be at a competitive disadvantage to the hotels in Milwaukee. They would like to take the current Comfort Suites sign and add it to the monument sign. Commissioner St. John questioned if Comfort Suites was included in the PUD. Mr. Fortin stated it was not. Commissioner St. John commented that would not be allowed because it would be considered an off premise sign unless they added it to the PUD. Mr. Winkler commented they could add it to the PUD. They were not in a hurry to get back to the Common Council because of some of the issues they are dealing with they have been pushed back and do not believe they will be breaking ground this year and they have some flexibility at this time. They would be willing to come back with some material and what it would look like. Mr. Winkler would like the Commission to consider the other side of the street is Milwaukee and in the hotel business signage is extremely competitive.
Mr. Fortin questioned if they intended to move forward to the Common Council and then expand the boundaries of the PUD to include the Comfort Suites. Mr. Winkler stated they would talk about it amongst themselves and get back to Planning.
Commissioner Sokol questioned where on the lot the sign would be located. Mr. Winkler pointed out on a map where the sign would be located by 13th Street.
Roll call, Dickmann; aye, St. John; aye, Sokol; nay, Kopplin; aye, Bolender; aye, Grabowski; aye, Nowak; aye. The motion to approve carries.
Conditional Use Permit Amendment – Black Diamond Group
6925 and 6965 S. 6th Street
Tax Key No.: 735-9992 & 735-9991
Mr. Fortin explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting an amendment to the conditional use permit that would lengthen the time of compliance to allow them to commence construction no later than July 1, 2009.
Commissioner Kopplin commented as the alderman for the area she had no problems granting the amendment.
Commissioner St. John questioned if it went to public hearing for an extension did that limit the ability to modify anything else within permit. Mr. Fortin explained if there was something that needed to be changed it could be at that time because it would be a public hearing. Commissioner St. John felt that it was now three years into this and they are now looking for another two that this would open the whole gamut for the public input to make sure that nothing has changed. Mr. Fortin explained it would be a new ordinance adopting a new set of conditions and restrictions with the only proposed amendment being the extension.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if in item 11 – Time of Compliance it states that they will apply for a building permit for installing or constructing…no later than July 1, 2007. Would that be right? Mr. Fortin explained what was included in the staff report were the old conditions and restrictions to show what the current set of conditions and restrictions were.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the time of one year was enough time to complete the project. Ms. Debbie Teglia, Black Diamond stated they believed they could get it done within one year. Commissioner St. John stated he thought it seemed a short amount of time and questioned if they might need more time. Ms. Teglia would like the two years in case of some unforeseen setback.
Commissioner Kopplin moved that the Commission recommends to the Common Council that the amendment to the conditions and restrictions for the properties at 6925 and 6965 S. 6th Street extending the time of compliance for applying for a building permit to July 1, 2009 be approved after a public hearing and be extended for 24 months after that.
Commissioner Nowak seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion to approve carries.
Commissioner Grabowski moves to adjourn. Commissioner Kopplin seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 9:11p.m.