MINUTES OF THE
TUESDAY, MAY 10, 2005
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Rolling, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Grabowski, Commissioner Correll, and Commissioner Peterson. Also present were Jeff Fortin, Planner, and Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop.
Commissioner Dickmann moved to approve the minutes of the April 12, 2005, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, all vote aye. Motion carries.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the May 3, 2005, Common Council meeting.
Landscaping Plan Review Ashbury Woods Phase 1
8435 S. Chicago Road
Tax Key No.: 823-9019
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission on August 26, 2003, the Plan Commission approved the site and building plans, subject to several conditions, one of which stipulated that the detailed landscaping plans, including the screening along the southern and western borders must be approved by the Plan Commission upon recommendation of the City Forester and Director of Community Development.
Commissioner Peterson questioned the plan for phase I landscaping. Mr. Dan Frigge, Heritage Development, explained the landscaping would be done as each building was being built so as to not disturb the landscaping during construction. Commissioner Peterson questioned the perimeter landscaping. Mr. Frigge will do the perimeter where allowable at the start of construction.
Commissioner Peterson expressed concern for the landscaping that was needed to block the view from the neighbors on the south and east sides of the property. Mr. Frigge explained he did not want to add landscaping that would be destroyed during the construction process. Some areas have enough room to add the landscaping at this time but other areas the buildings are close to the perimeter and that landscaping would need to be done after construction starts.
Commissioner Correll explained the inconvenience was not a problem for the developer but for the neighbors and it should be done in a timely fashion. Mr. Frigge explained as soon as a construction schedule was built then the landscaping would be phased in with the construction.
Commissioner Peterson requested whatever perimeter landscaping that could be put in be done within this calendar year.
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner would tie the landscaping to the occupancy permit and would not issue occupancies for each individual building until the landscaping was inspected and complete.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the phase I was in the eastern part and then phase II would be the back portion. Mr. Frigge confirmed that was the plan.
Mayor Bolender told Mr. Frigge he would be putting in the landscaping to hide the construction from the neighbors as quick as possible and to try and hide the construction process from the neighbors. The neighbors to the south and the southwest should not be able to see the construction site.
Commissioner Peterson motioned that the Plan Commission approve the landscaping plans subject to the following conditions:
1. That prior to the beginning of Phase II ground disturbance, Heritage Development or the subsequent developer will stake out the wooded edge to be retained along the southwest and west border of Phase II property and contact the City Forester. The City Forester will visit the site to approve tree preservation fencing with regard to the depth of wooded area retained.
2. That landscaping around the perimeter of Phase I (that is, exterior boundaries of the property) is completed as much as possible in calendar year 2005.
3. That landscaping around the perimeter of Phase II is completed in the same calendar year that the rough grading commences in Phase II as much as possible.
4. That the developer return to the Plan Commission with site, grading and landscaping plans prior to commencing work in Phase II.
5. That as each building is completed; no occupancy permit is granted by the City of Oak Creek until all landscaping is completed for that building.
Commissioner Correll seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Rezoning Pranke Holdings, LLC
8750 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 860-9996
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission that the applicant was requesting that the property at 8750 S. Howell Avenue be rezoned from B-3, Office and Professional Business to B-4, Highway business to allow for the eventual construction of a four tenant retail center. The center will feature a Qdoba restaurant, a coffee shop with a drive-through window and space for two (2) additional tenants.
Even though the impact of a coffee drive-through would be less than that of a fast food restaurant, a more appropriate action would be to rezone the property to B-2, Community Business and grant a conditional use for the drive-through. This would allow the City the opportunity to place additional conditions and restrictions on the drive-through facility.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned where the cueing would take place on the site. Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, showed the first site plan submitted by the applicant and the revised site plan they submitted after working with staff. This would not be the final site plan at this time. The plan shows the cueing along Howell Avenue and the window would be around the corner of the building. The new site layout shows the access easement that is shared with the bank. The drive-through is still on Howell Avenue and wraps around to the south end of the building.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the building had four fronts where would the back of the building be located. Mr. Fortin, Planner, explained technically the back of the building would be facing the east. On this site the building would need four sided architecture because the building was visible from all four sides.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned the access points for the site. Mr. Fortin, Planner, they have found out that there is an access easement that needs to be maintained and they are still working on the details of the site because we are just at the rezoning process. The driveway with the bank will be shared by a previous access agreement.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned the benefit for the City to rezoning. This should be something more than a drive-through coffee shop and restaurant.
Commissioner Correll agreed this was not the best use for that piece of land.
Commissioner Siira wondered if the site plan would meet all of the parking requirements. Mr. Fortin, Planner, replied at this point it would not meet the requirements and the applicant is working at this time for shared parking agreements. This is still in the preliminary stages.
Commissioner Foeckler expressed concern for cueing along Howell Avenue. He also explained he did not believe that this site would attract a B-3 office building. He was not opposed to the use, but again expressed concern for the cueing of the cars.
Commissioner Grabowski expressed concern for the conditional use and also for approving something without any type of building plans.
Commissioner Peterson expressed concern for the parking and other access issues with the site for the types of businesses proposed.
Commissioner Correll expressed concern for the drive-through and would have a more favorable approach if the drive-through was eliminated.
Mr. Bob Rowe, Redmond Company, explained his client would be willing to reduce the size of the building if an agreement could not be reached for the additional parking spaces needed. Perhaps one of the tenant spaces could be removed and bring it down to a three tenant building. To address the cueing issues they could perhaps add a berm or screen wall to help screen the cueing for the site.
Commissioner Foeckler asked what the Commission was expecting to see at this site. Mayor Bolender commented there were other businesses besides banks that may be interested in this site.
Commissioner Foeckler suggested the applicant return to the Commission after talking with the client and compromising on only having two tenants and no drive-through. Mr. Rowe explained it would be on square footage and the tenants would only need so much space and the building would need to accommodate more than two tenants because of the size.
Commissioner Correll thought the problem with the building was the drive-through not the number of tenants.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if they would be willing to drop down to two tenants and delete the drive-through. Mr. Rowe would need to take that back to his client.
Commissioner Correll motioned that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that the property at 8750 S. Howell Avenue be rezoned from B-3, Office and Professional Business to B-2, Community Business after a public hearing.
Commissioner Grabowski seconds. Roll call, Dickmann; nay, Jackson; aye, Rolling; aye, Siira; aye, Foeckler; aye, Bolender; nay, Grabowski; aye, Correll; aye, Peterson; nay. Motion carries.
Plan Review Java Grande Coffee Kiosk
150 W. Rawson Avenue
Tax Key No.: 734-9022
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission that Java Grande was requesting approval of site, building and landscaping plans for a drive-through coffee kiosk that would be placed on the property at 150 W. Rawson Avenue. The conditions and restrictions for this property allow for any uses that are permitted under the B-4, Highway Business district.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the water and sewer issue on Rawson Avenue had been cleared up. Mr. Ben Halverson, Java Grande, the water and sewer issue is still open and they are proposing to use a service truck for the fresh and grey water. The kiosk would be serviced two times a week and the grey water would be disposed of at the Flying J facility. The reason they would prefer to use the truck as opposed to the sewer and water is because of the flexibility to move to a new site if the Rawson site turns out not to be a viable site. The truck is also a good source of advertising.
Commissioner Rolling requested clarification on the hours of the operation. Mr. Halverson clarified they would be open the same hours as the Citgo station.
Commissioner Foeckler did not agree with not hooking up to the sewer and water because the City has requirements that need to be met.
Commissioner Grabowski did not agree with the use at this site. It would be a step backwards for the City. Mr. Halverson commented the building arrives at the site as a trailer and then the wheels are removed and the structure is anchored to the ground and the bottom would be skirted off. It looks to be a permanent structure.
Commissioner Grabowski expressed concern for the City being left with just a slab sitting there if the business did not work. Mr. Halverson explained they have done market studies for the past year and they believe it would be a viable business.
Commissioner Dickmann commented he spoke with the owners of another such coffee kiosk that did have bathroom facilities inside and the owner explained that was not the norm for this type of business. Mr. Halverson also commented that there were several other sites that did not operate with sewer or water connections with in the area.
Mayor Bolender would like to something more permanent than a trailer and would also like to see the building connected to sewer and water.
Commissioner Peterson explained to Mr. Halverson the City has in the recent past required companies that came in with trailers for temporary use to hook-up to sewer and water and they needed to be consistent on the issue.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if the deal would not go through if connections were required. Mr. Halverson, it would not kill the deal but the potential for further kiosks in Oak Creek would be severely limited.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned if there were models that included restroom facilities for employees. Mr. Halverson stated there were not any models available from this manufacturer. If there were only one employee on site the kiosk would close down for a few minutes and then reopen.
Commissioner Siira questioned the handicap accessibility of the building. Mr. Halverson would amend the access if approached by an applicant that it made sense to hire if necessary.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop questioned if Mr. Halverson was aware of where the Citgo refuels there tanks. Mr. Halverson was aware of the location and has made arrangements with the owner of the Citgo station that the refills will come as late as possible in the day to not interfere with the operation of the kiosk.
Commissioner Jackson stated the connections were a big concern and he would prefer to see something more permanent on the site.
Commissioner Grabowski agreed with Commissioner Jackson and she would not be supportive of the business without the sewer and water connections. Mr. Halverson was of the opinion the building was a very modern looking structure that complies with the aesthetic requirements of the City. This is a new concept to Oak Creek and would be very complementary to the present property owner and the proposed car wash.
Commissioner Dickmann requested clarification on the problem with the refueling at the station. Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop explained the refueling island was just to the east of the kiosk and would shut down one lane of traffic during refueling. Mr. Halverson spoke with the owner of the Citgo and the refueling happens about two to three times a week for roughly a half an hour. The owner of the Citgo does not see it being a major issue for the coffee kiosk business.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned if Mr. Halverson was fully aware that if the Commission approved this sewer and water connections would be a requirement. Mr. Halverson fully understood the requirements and it would be done prior to opening.
Mr. Fortin commented the one year time limit in the Code was geared towards developments that were not currently serviced by sewer and then it became available to the business they would have one year to connect. A proposal of this type would have to connect at the time of construction because the sewer and water were currently available and the one year time limit would not apply.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the building would be to close to the refueling island that would restrict any operations of the kiosk. Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop was not aware of any restrictions. They do not do tank installation and certification in Oak Creek it is handled by the State.
Alderwoman Lampe questioned the required distance from the refueling tanks. Mr. Halverson had not checked with anyone on the requirements but would be willing to move the drive-through lane slightly so as to not restrict the flow of traffic.
Mayor Bolender recommended the item be held until such a time that the applicant could provide the Commission with the State approved plan of ignition area for a refueling supplier.
Conditions and Restrictions Early Child Educational Center, Inc.
10479 S. Chicago Road
Tax Key No.: 962-9980
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner explained to the Commission at the April 26, 2005 meeting they recommended that the Common Council rezone the property at 10479 S. Chicago Road and grant a conditional use for a day care center with an outdoor activity center for the Early Childhood Educational Center. The conditions and restrictions are being presented to the Commission at this time for their review.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the applicant had any problems with the requirement for a contingent parking plan in the event that Highway 32 was widened in the future. Mr. Ted O'Leske did not have a problem and with the contingency because there was enough room for staffing and parent parking.
Commissioner Peterson questioned if the fencing for the play area would be part of the conditions and restrictions. Mr. Fortin, Planner, it would be part of the site plan approval and would be a State restriction.
Commission Grabowski clarified under item 2i: There should be a pedestrian pathway with the Deerfield Elementary School property. Mr. O'Leske would not like to have a right-of-way between the school and his building leading to Highway 32.
Commissioner Grabowski explained the need for the path was for the children who would be using the facility after school.
Mayor Bolender questioned the need for a path that would send kids down a path to a day care center alone.
Commissioner Siira would like the hours of operation added to the conditions and restrictions.
Mr. O'Leske had no issues with the conditions and restrictions as received except for the path to Deerfield. Commissioner Dickmann recommended deleting Item 2I
Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that the attached conditions and restrictions as amended by dropping item 2I be included with the conditional use permit for the property at 10479 S. Chicago Road.
Commissioner Correll questioned if the hours of operation would be added to the conditions and restrictions. Mayor Bolender questioned if the hours of operation were included with the conditions and restrictions. Mr. Fortin, Planner, the hours of operation are not usually an issue with a day care center.
Commissioner Peterson seconds.
Commissioner Dickmann amended the motion to include the hours of operation from 6:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Second concurs.
Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Certified Survey Map Gabaldon Properties
8907 & 8995 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 859-9039 & 859-9980
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval of a certified survey map that would move the property line between the properties at 8907 & 8995 S. Howell Avenue to the south about 47 feet. This is being requested to accommodate the construction of the Gabaldon Properties retail center that the Plan Commission approved in February of 2005. The CSM would not create any additional parcels.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned that the Plan Commission recommend that the Common Council approve the certified survey map for the properties at 8907 & 8995 S. Howell Avenue, subject to any technical corrections being made prior to recording.
Commissioner Grabowski seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Certified Survey Map Parkside Land Group, LLC
441 & 545 W. Ryan Road
Tax Key No.: 906-9025 & 905-9999-005
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner explained to the Commission that the applicant was requesting approval of a certified survey map for the properties at 441 & 545 W. Ryan Road. The intent of the map is to redraw the property boundaries to match the conceptual development plan. The certified survey map will not create any new parcels; only change the property line between the two parcels.
Commissioner Grabowski requested the applicant move the property line between parcel one and two approximately 83 feet to the east to make the lot conforming. Mr. Mark Reinders, it would become conforming but by doing that it would reduce the amount of developable land and it would not be beneficial. Everything on the west side of where the road is proposed to come in is not buildable. By moving the line further east it would create more land that is not buildable and would not be a good use of the land.
Mayor Bolender commented they would be creating a non-conforming parcel. Commissioner Grabowski commented the lot was already non-conforming and wondered if there had been any discussion to look at the dedication for the street between the two lots. Mr. Reinders there has been discussion. What they are intending to do is once this is put together the ideal scenario would be to have the street dedicated as a public right-of-way. That would satisfy the requirement and the lot would not be nonconforming because it would be a public road and it would have the frontage. The difference is public road versus private road. If the road was put in as a private road it would not meet the frontage requirement.
Commissioner Jackson explained the difference between the public and private roads and the nonconforming status of the lots. The original CSM has a distance of 152 feet of frontage on Ryan and the new proposed CSM is going down to about 117 feet. The Code will not allow for a nonconforming lot to be altered to decrease its width or area further below the dimension standards applicable to that lot. That would mean that what is being requested could not be allowed under the Code. However; if he was to dedicate the road as a public road then the whole length of the new road that would be running north and south would provide the frontage needed.
Mr. Reinders questioned if the code was specific if it needed to be a public road or just serviced by a road. Mr. Fortin clarified it would need to be public street frontage.
Commissioner Foeckler did not believe this could be done because a similar nonconforming use was denied by this Commission. Mr. Reinders would be alright with the approval if it were contingent upon the dedication of public right-of-way. He would like the public right-of-way to be defined as the portion that runs from the north to the south. Commissioner Grabowski suggested holding this item until the numbers for the road could be verified. Mr. Reinders suggest just identifying it as the 66 foot wide road extending from Ryan Road to the south terminating at the position which is the north.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop commented when the swap with the County was made there was an agreement to make this a connection to Eagle Summit Drive. He recommended that the dedication go south and loop around and connect to Eagle Summit Drive as is shown.
Mr. Reinders clarified in the exchange with the County it was never subject to the connection being made. When the exchange with the County was made an easement was requested if necessary to construct a public or private road across County owned land. He could accommodate the Fire Department with access to the back from a parking lot or an access road.
Mayor Bolender commented the second access would have to be a road. Fire engines and ambulances cannot drive across grass fields. Mr. Reinders would like to have a parking lot in the back that would have access to the police parking lot. Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop stated that would work until the owners of the lot decided to erect another building on the lot and then there was no access. It would have to be a dedicated easement that would be attached to the property.
Alderwoman Lampe questioned how parcel 3 could be called a parcel without frontage along a dedicated road. Mr. Fortin, Planner, this was not part of the CSM it is County land.
Commissioner Jackson would like to see the item held for additional staff review.
Mayor Bolender directed the item held for further review and discussion with staff regarding the frontage issues.
Plan Commission Consultation Serenity Oaks Subdivision
1850 W. Oakwood Road & 10420 S. Judith Place
Tax Key No.: 926-9016 & 926-9989-002
This item was not discussed; it was withdrawn prior to the meeting by the applicant.
Plan Commission Consultation Laurel Woods
8100, 8240, 8268, 8300, 8304, 8380, 8400, 8432 & 8351 S. 27th Street
Tax Key Nos.: 810-9977-001, 810-9976, 810-9975-001, 831-9011, 831-9007, 831-9027, 831-9026, 831-9025 & 831-9029
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission that the applicant was requesting Plan Commission review of a conceptual plan for the Laurel Woods Condominium development. The development is located at the intersection of S. 27th Street and Honadel Boulevard. It will feature 648 housing units situated on 89 acres for an overall development density of 7.28 units per acre. There will also be 264 units of senior housing proposed at a density of 26.4 units per acre which would be separate from Laurel Woods but would be included in the PUD.
Commissioner Foeckler commented he liked that the access was removed from 20th Street and that the woods were being preserved as much as possible. The density is some what of an issue being he was generally pleased with the preservation of the woodlands.
Commissioner Grabowski felt that any encroachment into the woods was completely unacceptable and questioned if the woods would be encroached at all. Mr. Tom Gibbs, Heartland Development explained there would be a road that crosses over the wetlands that did happen to be in the woods. The wetlands to the north on the east side of the parcel were all wooded and would be preserved. The buildings 35-39 are in the woods. The concern was connecting the north parcel with the south parcel to make it possible to have two exits onto 27th Street to reduce the amount of traffic into the subdivision to the south. The flow does work in that direction. By making the road through the woods a private road it will make a beautiful drive.
This is an aggressive plan with the amenities, the private roads, indoor and outdoor pools. This may be one of the most spectacular developments within Milwaukee County. They are looking for a little bit of give and take at this point.
Commissioner Grabowski questioned what other homes would be encroaching the wooded area. Mr. Gibbs stated that numbers 32 and 33 do slightly encroach the woods. He proposed doing an overlay of the woods and showing that to the Commission. The buildings would be up tight against the woods and still preserve as much of the woods as possible.
Commissioner Jackson questioned where the dividing lines were for the north parcel and the senior parcel. Mr. Gibbs explained the senior parcel ran from the edge of the pond in a southeastern direction then south and then over east. A road is indicated that would really be an emergency access road and not direct access between the two parcels for general use.
Mayor Bolender commented there were three things wrong with the plan it was too dense, the parking was a question and the woods get hammered. The density needs to be cut down and the trees need to be preserved. He also commented he would not be willing to bargain with the woods. The woods could not be replaced and the neighborhood would suffer.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned the density and size of the buildings in the senior area. Mr. Gibbs explained many seniors are looking for smaller one bedroom senior buildings and that is what you find when looking at senior building in todays market. It would be seniors about 55 or older.
Mayor Bolender commented it would possibly be a strain on the emergency services to the City.
Carol Grundy, 9160 S. Nicholson Road, expressed concern for additional senior housing within Oak Creek. Mayor Bolender explained there are no statutes limiting the number of senior housing projects and that would be something the developer would have to look into.
Rebecca Lane, City Forester, commented she would prefer there to be a 75 foot buffer from the woods to preserve the woods. It would need to be buffered to preserve the woods in future years.
Mr. Jim Yernak, 908 N. 34th Street, Milwaukee, questioned how colonial fit in with this type of woods. He spoke about the sensitivity of the woods and thought it may need almost a 300 foot buffer to keep the woods safe.
Theresa Kasprzak, 8437 Cortland Drive, expressed concern for the existing condos and the size of the senior housing that would be put in and the loss of the view of the woods.
Ron Zambriski, 2309 W. Drexel, questioned where the road heading to the north would be headed. Mr. Gibbs explained the road was on the site plan because it was recommended as part of the 27th Street Plan development for a through access.
Mr. Ralph Plewe, 8419 S. Cortland, commented the entire project was too dense and the access roads were not acceptable.
Mr. Cliff Nelson, 8527 S. Courtland, commented he was not happy with Heartland Development and the current development they have in Oak Creek.
Mr. Richard Barloga, 11045 W. Parnell Avenue, commented this was significant remaining woodlands and he would like to see it preserved at all costs.
Mr. Gibbs explained to the Commission there were ways within the Condo restrictions that would preserve the integrity of the woods through restrictions as opposed to single family lots.
Commissioner Foeckler proposed Mr. Gibbs take the comments from the discussion and before returning to the Plan Commission, meeting with him and notifying the neighbors and having a neighborhood meeting.
Mayor Bolender questioned if the developer really wanted to put small single bedroom units along the 27th Street corridor for such an exciting area. Mr. Gibbs was very open to suggestions. There needs to be a way to attract seniors who want 55 and older only residents.
Alderwoman Lampe expressed concern for the location of the senior housing in relation to the nearest emergency services and suggested the developer speak with the Fire Department regarding such issues.
Marie Kidder, 8624 S. Roxbury, commented this was a very dense development and that they were not the high end condos that the City was looking for along 27th Street.
Laura Pecor, 8407 S. Courtland, suggested more of the duplex condos for seniors.
Mr. Jocham, 2436 Honadel, commented he did not want to see the two story buildings and was concerned for the care the wetlands would receive within the development.
Mr. Patrick McCarty, 8271 S. 20th Street, supports the reducing of the total number of units and saving the woods.
Mr. McCarty spoke for Kristen Wilhelm and reported that Ms. Wilhelm would be willing to look into writing a grant to somehow purchase the woods.
Commissioner Foeckler stated for the record that Mr. Steve Kazik from S. 20th Street had concerns regarding the density of the project.
Commissioner Foeckler stated he would like Mr. Gibbs to contact him and arrange for a neighborhood meeting with the revisions on the project.
Commissioner Peterson motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Grabowski seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Meeting adjourned at 10:04 p.m.