MINUTES OF THE
TUESDAY, MARCH 22, 2005
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Rolling, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Kopplin, Commissioner Correll, and Commissioner Peterson. Also present were Jeff Fortin, Planner, Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop, Sergeant Mitchell, Oak Creek Police Department, and Doug Schachtner, Director of Parks, Recreation and Forestry.
Commissioner Peterson moved to approve the minutes of the March 8, 2005, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Kopplin seconds. Roll call, all vote aye. Motion carries.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the March 14, 2005, Common Council meeting.
No comments or concerns from the Commission.
Plan Review – Nucor cold Finish Building Addition
400 W. Burkhard Court
Tax Key No.: 765-9048
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval of a 12,000 square foot addition to the Nucor Cold Finish building. The addition will be at the southeast end of the building. The addition meets all height and setback requirements of the M-1, Manufacturing District.
Mr. Bob Goehner, Project Manager for Skyline Development, told the Commission that Nucor owns about thirteen acres in the area.
Commissioner Dickmann commented the new addition was complementary to the area and the existing building.
Commissioner Siira questioned the reasoning for the second floor windows being so tall in comparison to the first floor windows. Mr. Goehner explained the second floor would be an office area and they were trying to get more natural light in the building.
Commissioner Kopplin motioned that the Plan Commission approve the site, building and landscaping plans for the property at 400 W. Burkhard Court with the following conditions:
1. That all building and fire codes are met prior to the issuance of building permits.
2. That the final landscaping plan is approved by the City Forester prior to the issuance of building permits.
3. That grading plans are approved by the City Engineer prior to the issuance of building permits.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all vote aye. Motion carries.
Rezoning – Milwaukee County Dog Park
Parts of 1125 and 1025 E. College Avenue, 709 E. Oak Street and part of 725 E. Oak Street
Tax Key Nos.: 733-9999, 733-0017, 720-9999-001, and 732-9996-002
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner explained to the Commission that Milwaukee County is requesting that portions of the properties of 1125 & 1025 E. College Avenue, 709 E. Oak Street and part of 725 E. Oak Street be rezoned from M-1, Manufacturing to P-1, Park District. The County is requesting to create an off-leash dog exercise area.
Commissioner Kopplin expressed concern for homeland security with the location of the park in correlation to the airport. Mr. Jim Ciha, Landscape Architect Milwaukee County, they are currently in the process with the FAA and the WiDOT with the issue and are waiting for the results of that process. Commissioner Kopplin questioned why they were requesting approval from the City before receiving those approvals. Mr. Ciha explained they were attempting to open the park before Memorial Day.
Commissioner Kopplin expressed concern for some missing missiles from homeland security and what could possibly occur at this site. Mr. Ciha responded the airport land to the east was open to gardeners and hundreds of people can come into that space on a free will basis at this time. Cudahy Nature Preserve to the north of this site is open to the public at all times. There have not been any concerns brought to the Parks Department from Homeland Security requesting restricted use of the Cudahy Nature Preserve during daylight hours. Commissioner Kopplin commented that when the park and gardens were created we did not have terrorists.
Commissioner Dickmann expressed concern for the roadway that was being proposed and if improvements would be made to the road. He also questioned if the park would be gated and who would control the gates. Mr. Ciha answered the gravel drive would be graded but not asphalted. The parking lot would be gated to restrict the use of the parking lot. The Parks Department will control the gates and maintain the park area.
Sergeant Mitchell, Oak Creek Police Department, the Police Department along with Homeland Security is looking at several possibilities with the park. One option would be to open an area and allow access for more movement. The other side is there would be more eyes and ears in the area. Allowing more citizens to go in an area that is more secluded can afford better security. The issue with hand held missiles is they are mobile devices and can be fired from any where in or around an airport or other strategic location. They can be carried in from a parked vehicle. The concern for this being a primary target area is justified but everywhere we go or can be has the potential to be used as a launch site for such a mobile device. The more people allowed affords more people to see what is going on. The Police Department would like to see the proposed parking area in a very visible area from Rawson Avenue for view from a passing squad. A street light in the parking lot would be of great benefit for the evening and early morning shifts.
Mayor Bolender commented it sounds like a lighted parking area and gated dusk to dawn is being requested. Also it should be visually accessible from Rawson Avenue. Mr. Ciha explained the site that General Mitchell International Airport gave them was the site that was on the plan. The parking lot is located in the southern most area of the parcel that they were directed to. The parking lot may not be visible from Rawson Avenue. You would have to drive down the access road to the parking lot because of the change in grade. Sergeant Mitchell could not comment on the visibility of the parking lot from other areas of Rawson Avenue but thought the lighting would help with the night visibility.
Mr. Ciha questioned if the driveway from the transport company would be accessible for Police Department use. If the Police Department could use that road it would be able to see the parking lot from that point. Sergeant Mitchell stated the squads do patrol that area as a whole and that would afford some accessibility of visibility to the parking lot if it was put on the southern most end of the park.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if they were proposing to have the park operate from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. at night and if someone from the Parks Department would be at the site for the entire time the park was open. Mr. Ciha stated it would be standard dawn to dusk hours and they don’t have personnel to staff all parks for the entire hours of operation. They do provide personnel for morning patrol and an afternoon or evening patrol. The park would be closed one day a week for regular maintenance.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned what would be done to prevent large dogs from jumping the fence and chasing deer or coyotes onto the airport land. Mr. Ciha responded the owner needs to keep the dog under their control by State Statute.
Commissioner Peterson questioned how the fee would be collected. Mr. Ciha explained it would be a card that was filled out for either a daily or season pass at the site.
Commissioner Foeckler commented the terrorists would win if we are fearful to put in or allow a dog park for the citizens. Recognizing what the Police have said that more people make a place safer he sees nothing inappropriate with the use.
Commissioner Kopplin commented she was not afraid of security but has been aware of people taking pictures in the area and being chased away.
Commissioner Peterson questioned when the Parks Department would receive and answer from the FAA and Homeland Security. Mr. Ciha expected the answer sometime in April.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the Director of Parks and Recreation had discussed some of the issues that were being discussed at this time with the Parks Commission. Mr. Doug Schachtner, Director PR&F, did not discuss the security issues but did discuss the need for a dog exercise area. There are problems with dogs running unleashed in the neighborhood and community parks and with dog litter. At this time there is no place to direct the people to go with the dogs. As a department and a commission they have been looking for an exercise area. It would be ideal for not only Oak Creek but also the surrounding communities.
Mayor Bolender stated the terrorists were not going to drive the citizens into their basements and the more people with their eyes and ears open is safer than hiding in your basement.
Frank Petelinsek, 611 E. Oak Street, commented he could not even believe the County would bring up the idea of a park for dogs near the airport with all the noise. There is fuel being dumped from the planes when they take off and that would be harmful to the dogs. Mr. Petelinsek brought a list of 36 questions that were given to Mr. Ciha to answer for Mr. Petelinsek.
Mayor Bolender explained that the planes do not drop fuel anywhere near the airport.
Commissioner Rolling questioned Mr. Ciha on the noise issue in the area. Mr. Ciha explained the issue had not come up and he was not an expert on sound. There are other people and animals in the area and have not been sound complaints that they are aware of. Mayor Bolender suggested they look into the noise factor within the area.
Commissioner Jackson questioned if the rezoning was approved would they need to return with a site plan. He does not believe that rezoning for a dog park would be out of context provided some of the problems could be taken care of before they went to Council. Mr. Fortin, Planner explained essentially they would just need a fence permit. The Commission has the site plan at this time but could request that they return to the Commission.
Commissioner Kopplin stated she sits on the Airport Committee and they put new windows in for the homeowners to help with the sound so there is a problem with noise.
Commissioner Correll questioned how and if the dog control would be an issue and how would the noise issue impact the animal if it was a problem. Mr. Ciha explained this park would be modeled after the Dane County dog park. It follows their model and standards and it has been a resounding success. He again explained he could not comment on the noise issue.
Mr. Fortin, Planner, questioned how the other County Dog Park was working. Mr. Ciha explained there was a park on the north side that did not have a fence and there were no problems with dogs running loose but only problems with over use of the park.
Alderwoman Lampe commented there were probably dogs living in that neighborhood at this time that were coping with the noise. This would be an occasional use area for the dogs and it should be left up to the dog owner to decide if the noise was a problem.
Sergeant Mitchell commented the Police Department was not for or against this project per se but having been involved in the enforcement action of dogs running at large within the community this type of facility within in the community would benefit the citizens of the community.
Commissioner Kopplin moves to hold the item until further information is received. Commission Siira seconds. Roll call, Dickmann; nay, Jackson; nay, Rolling; nay, Siira; aye, Foeckler; nay, Bolender; nay, Kopplin; aye, Correll; nay, Peterson; aye. Motion fails.
Commissioner Dickmann moves to that the Plan Commission recommend to the common Council that parts of the properties at 1125 and 1025 E. College Avenue, 725 E. Oak Street and the entire property 709 E. Oak Street be rezoned from M-1, Manufacturing to P-1, Park District after a public hearing and that facts be brought forward to the Common Council regarding noise and other issues from the FAA as discussed at this meeting.
Commissioner Foeckler seconds. Roll call, Dickmann; aye, Jackson; aye, Rolling; aye, Siira; nay, Foeckler; aye, Bolender; aye, Kopplin; nay, Correll; aye, Peterson; nay. Motion carries.
Certified Survey Map – Delphi Automotive Systems
7929 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 813-9007
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission that at the November 23, 2004 meeting, the Plan Commission recommended that the Common Council approve a two lot land division for the Delphi property at 7929 S. Howell Avenue. The item was never sent to the Common Council or recorded at the request of the applicant. The applicant would now like to request approval of a three lot land division for the Delphi property.
Commissioner Peterson questioned if the building could legally be divided in this way. Mr. Fortin, Planner, explained a written legal opinion was never received. There were discussions with the City Attorney, Fire Department and City staff that this could be done as long as the Fire Department is satisfied that it will meet all of the fire protection ordinances. The City departments also need to be satisfied that the utility plans will meet the City’s requirements. These issues will be taken care of as part of the development agreement before the item is brought to the Common Council
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop explained the building code does allow for zero lot lines. The issue the City has is the set back ordinances. A variance would be necessary for approval. There are ways to handle protection for zero lot lines, such as a fire wall dividing the building. The Fire Department is concerned about three properties being protected with one fire protection system. A simple matter such as a fence can cause problems with access to fire hydrants. The items need to be addressed with all three owners so fire protection will not be compromised.
Commissioner Rolling questioned if this would be a variation or a variance. Mr. Fortin explained that the Zoning Code reads that there are variances but in cases such as certified survey maps or subdivisions the Council can grant minor variations to the requirements. The variation in this case would be in setbacks and green space requirements.
Commissioner Rolling expressed concern for granting any variations to the green space requirement for fear of setting precedence.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned setting precedence on setbacks. Mr. Fortin, Planner explained the overall impact on the green space would remain the same. By dividing them not every lot will have the total green space required. Additional pavement or building would not be allowed. The only precedence being set would be to allow others to divide off buildings which is done in many other communities and maybe even in Oak Creek.
Commissioner Foeckler noted that precedence has already been set for zero setbacks with the barn on Drexel Avenue but each situation needs to be dealt with the specific facts of that case.
Commissioner Siira questioned if the connector between the buildings on lot three and the building to the north would be removed. Mr. Andy Bandy, General Manager, Mallory Properties, the connector between the office building and the existing building will be removed. Commissioner Siira requested that be illustrated on the survey that it is to be removed.
Mr. Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, wanted to be assured this would not impact Howell Avenue. He requested that along with any improvements in the area sidewalks would be required.
Alderwoman Lampe questioned if they would be allowed to remove buildings and do redevelopment in the future. Mr. Fortin, Planner, explained that any additional black top would not be allowed. They could remove the buildings and reconfigure a parking lot or building. They can’t go over what currently exists as far as impervious surface. Alderman Lampe questioned if they did redevelopment would they be required to meet the 30%. Mr. Fortin explained that if they redeveloped they would be allowed to keep the same amount of impervious surface but the City could require them to meet the 30% as part of the site plan review.
Commissioner Foeckler requested the reason behind the certified survey map request. Mr. Bandy explained they are planning to keep it at its current use. The company is green space minded and lot 3 is 29.4% green space and lot 2 is 23% green space.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned if the lot lines could be adjusted to get the required green space for each lot to eliminate setting precedence. Mr. Bandy explained lot 1 would remain to be Delphi’s property. One option would be to reconfigure some of the asphalt on lot 2. Mr. Fortin stated they could remove some asphalt on lot 2 to get the 30% green space requirement.
Commissioner Rolling suggested going with the removal of parking spaces to get the required green space for each lot.
Commissioner Foeckler suggested requiring the sidewalks be put in at this time. Mr. Fortin stated as part of the development agreement sidewalks could be in it for the entire length of Forest Hill and Howell Avenue.
Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the property at 7929 S. Howell Avenue be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That any technical corrections are made prior to recording.
2. That a development agreement be entered into between the owner and the City to specify the responsibility for, and the timing of any public improvements, to include sidewalks.
3. That the applicant submits a fire protection plan to the Fire Department to address any Fire Department issues related to having a building that crosses the property lines prior to the application being placed on the Common Council agenda.
4. That the 30% green space requirements be met on all parcels and for future redevelopment.
Commissioner Rolling seconds. Roll call, all vote aye. Motion carries.
Temporary Use – Musson Brothers Pavement Crushing Operation
9540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue
Tax Key No.: 910-9984
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner explained to the Commission that the applicant was requesting approval to use the LePine property at 9540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue on a temporary basis to allow them to crush pavement for use on the E. Ryan Road reconstruction project.
Commissioner Peterson inquired where the operation would take place if it were not on this site. Mr. Fortin, Planner explained it would be allowed to go anywhere within the Ryan Road right-of-way.
Commissioner Correll questioned how they would know it would only be used for the Ryan Road project. Mr. Andy Ruffing, Musson Brother, Inc., stated it would be difficult for someone to police that but, he had no intentions of selling material to someone else. He would need all the material and some for the project.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if they would be using some of the material currently on the LePine property. Mr. Ruffing explained it would depend on the amount of material needed for the project if they would be using the current pavement on the site. Commissioner Kopplin commented that the berms on the site would be a valuable asset to prevent noise and dust. Mr. Fortin clarified the piles of pavement on the site would be used and the piles being referred to in the staff report were stock piles of compost.
Commissioner Dickmann commented that he was disturbed not all of the conditions of the conditional use permit for Mr. LePine were not yet been met.
Commissioner Siira questioned the extent of the Ryan Road reconstruction project. Mr. Ruffing stated it would be from just west of Hwy 38 to Hwy 32 and north and south on Hwy 32 for about 1000 feet and the intersections in between. Commissioner Siira questioned if it would be Ryan Road or Hwy 100 that was going to be worked on. Mayor Bolender stated it would be Hwy. 100 not E. Ryan Road that would be under reconstruction.
Alderwoman Lampe commented that the residents of her district had requested and it was agreed to by Mr. LePine that crushing operations take place only during the winter months. She also questioned who would be running the crushing operation on Mr. LePine’s site. (Answer was inaudible. Alderwoman Lampe was speaking with someone from the audience.)
Alderwoman Lampe questioned what would prevent them from using a second crusher in the right-of-way. Mr. Ruffing explained that having a second crusher would be impractical but technically they could have two or three crushers if the project was large enough. Mr. Ruffing explained that the crushing would be no more or less disruptive to the neighbors than a lot of the things that would be going on during the reconstruction project.
Alderwoman Lampe questioned the advantage to having the crusher on the LePine property. Mr. Ruffing stated currently there is a large pile of uncrushed material on the site and would reduce the amount of trucking to and from the crusher. Because of the amount of room needed for the actual operation of the reconstruction it would make more sense to have the crushing operation off of the right-of-way and at a central location off of the project.
Alderman Lampe requested that the temporary use expire on October 31, 2006 or the end of the reconstruction project which ever comes first.
Carol Grundy, 9160 S. Nicholson Road, commented that Mr. LePine was ill for seven months and that put him behind schedule on his site plan. Mr. Fortin noted that Mr. LePine has submitted plans and is starting to make progress. They are working with the City and should have the materials for the site plan review within the next couple of months.
Mayor Bolender stated he would like Mr. LePine to get this done immediately.
Commissioner Jackson questioned if Mr. Ruffing would be willing to commit in writing that there would be no additional crushers used in the right-of-way for the Hwy 100 project if the temporary use was granted. Mr. Ruffing stated he would not want to commit to that. He has no intentions of doing that but did not want to commit himself to that. If it was required he would agree.
Commission Rolling questioned if on past projects with no permanent site for the crusher would the crusher typically move with the project. Mr. Ruffing stated it could happen that way. Commissioner Rolling felt it would be more desirable if the crusher was not impacting the same residents for the entire time of the project. Jared the owner of the crusher explained that his crusher was not portable and was much more efficient and quieter than a portable crusher. The crushing operation is regulated by the DNR as far as dust and noise. He also stated if he was crushing in the right-of-way he would probably work from 6:00 a.m. until dark.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if he would be using water with the crushing operation. Jared explained that water was introduced at all of the crushing chambers and at all of the drop points in the system. The unit was newer than 2002 and was quite efficient.
Mr. LePine stated for the record that he would monitor Musson Brothers and B & B Crushing. He will have environmentalists on the site to check for dust and noise. He has a million gallons of water on site for them to use for the operation.
Mr. Mark VerHalen commented that with the information received at this time the operation would be a benefit to more residents that it would inconvenience
Commissioner Correll motioned that the Plan Commission approve the temporary use of the property at 9540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue for the purpose of pavement crushing for the Ryan Road reconstruction project subject to the following conditions:
1. That any crushing of pavement materials is only for the Hwy. 100 reconstruction project.
2. That crushing is limited to the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday excluding holidays.
3. That the temporary use approval expires on October 31, 2005
4. That this be the only crushing site for the Hwy. 100 project.
5. That appropriate wetting operations be utilized to prevent dust from being blown off of the property. The crushing machine equipment must be manufactured after August 31, 1983.
6. The operator will be required to clean Pennsylvania Avenue daily, if necessary, of materials dropped by vehicles using this facility.
7. All trucks shall turn left out of this facility onto Pennsylvania Avenue.
Commissioner Peterson seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Plan Review – Howell Oaks Retail Center
8201 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: 811-9009-004
Mr. Jeff Fortin, Planner, explained to the Commission the applicant was requesting approval of a multi-tenant retail center at 8201 S. Howell Avenue. This plan meets all of the height, setback, and lot coverage requirements of the B-4 Highway Business zoning district. There is an approved stormwater management plan for this property.
Commissioner Siira questioned the location of the pedestrian walkway in the middle of the drive line area. He also had problems with the north elevation and what type of decorative fencing was being proposed. He would like to see the outdoor garden area dressed up. A variation in the roof line was suggested.
Mr. Dan Seibel expressed concern for the additional costs that would be incurred because the Ace Hardware user was a very low rent payer. With additional cost to the development would make it difficult to make the project feasible.
Commissioner Correll questioned who would be the high end rent payer on the south end of the building with the drive-thru. Mr. Seibel exclaimed that was correct, it would be a Taco Bell. Commissioner Siira requested clarification on the location of the Taco Bell building. Mr. Seibel stated it would be on the outlot. Commissioner Siira explained that would be future development and not part of this plan review.
Commissioner Correll questioned the need for the drive-thru on the retail center and earlier comments that were made that a drive-thru would not be needed on this retail center. Mr. Seibel was not aware of any agreements that there would not be a drive-thru it has always been part of the plan to have a drive-thru on the end cap and on the outlot.
Commissioner Correll stated when Mr. DeMichele originally came forward with the plan there was to be no drive-thru. Mr. Seibel explained the reason for the drive-thru was to be able to obtain a higher rent. The main component of the center was the Ace Hardware and they were a low rent payer. In order to make the project work they need higher rents for the rest of the project. Commissioner Correll suggested they get higher rent payers and fix the architecture of the building.
Commissioner Siira stated what they were requesting would not add a lot of additional costs to the building. Mr. Greg Brossen, Zimmerman Design Group, questioned if the Plan Commission was looking to have the north elevation broken up. The materials in the project were of very high quality. Commissioner Siira suggested it could be limited to the corners of the lawn and garden center and add something complimentary to what was done on the drive-thru and by the doors. It may be as simple as a replicating the bump outs on the north elevation.
Commissioner Rolling suggested 50% of the north elevation be built up.
Commissioner Foeckler suggested replicating the south elevation without the drive-thru window on the north elevation.
Commissioner Siira stated it could be reviewed at staff level.
Alderwoman Lampe questioned why the Taco Bell could not be incorporated into the retail center to have less of an impact on the neighbors. She also requested the berms be matched with the berms at Northern Computers. She expressed additional concerns with the median openings.
Mr. Seibel stated the drive-thru has always been a part of the development. Alderwoman Lampe stated she had discussions with Mr. DeMichele from the beginning of the project regarding the outlots and a drive-thru. The neighbors do not want a drive-thru at this site. Mr. DeMichele was discussing the possibilities of a bank on the outlot.
Mr. Siebel explained the reason they were discussing the Taco Bell was because they just signed a lease with them and wanted to fully disclose that it was happening and they were just discussing the site plan for the retail center at this time.
Commissioner Correll expressed concern for the configuration of the drive-thru and how they would use the drive-thru if they came in directly from Howell Avenue.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if Mr. Seibel was representing Taco Bell or Mr. DeMichele. Mr. Seibel stated he was working with Mr. DeMichele and Taco Bell has nothing to do with this site plan.
Mayor Bolender questioned why Taco Bell could not go into the retail center. Mr. Seibel stated they have no desire to go into the retail center.
Mr. Forting stated they were requesting approval for the retail center with the Ace Hardware and if the Taco Bell deal goes through they will come back before the Plan Commission with that site and building plan.
Commissioner Siira questioned if the Taco Bell was integral for the development as a whole. Mr. Seibel explained the Taco Bell would be integral for the development but they would need to reevaluate as the project goes along. Commissioner Siira explained if the site plan was approved for the retail center and then there was opposition to the Taco Bell what type of position would they be in at that time.
Commissioner Foeckler explained that when the issue of the rezone was brought before the Commission it was not an issue of the drive-thru because a drive-thru was assumed with the bank. The issue at the time was to not have any fast food facilities on Forest Hill and Howell. There will be opposition to a fast food restaurant.
Mr. Sean Ream, 8170 S. Howell Avenue, has a problem with the development and the timing of his notices. How can they so no to a Target at this site but yes to this development. There will be lights shining into his house and his quality of life will be diminished. The track record for Ace Hardware stores is not well and they will probably be gone within two years.
Mr. Dave McCally, Ace Hardware, reiterated the fact the reason the deal was able to go through was because of the outlots. The Ace Hardware he currently owns has been around for 38 years.
Alderwoman Lampe again asked about the berm on the site and if it would match the Northern Computers site. The berms are intended to block the parking lots from view of the neighbors. Mr. Brossen stated the site plan shows a three foot berm on the site with plantings all along Howell Avenue. Commissioner Correll stated it was not out of line to ask for the same standard with this project. Mr. Brossen explained the elevation on this site was rather high.
Commissioner Rolling suggested that the entire development be looked at together instead of in pieces. We are aware of the Taco Bell and are asked to approve the retail center without looking at the Taco Bell. Mistakes could be made if it is done incorrectly.
Mayor Bolender suggested putting the item on hold.
Mr. Seibel stated the problem with putting this on hold is that it would hold up the Ace Hardware and the development from moving forward. They are only here for the approval of the retail center and the Taco Bell can be discussed when it is presented at a later date.
Commissioner Siira commented that he had never seen a Taco Bell in an inline retail they are always free standing. Commissioner Correll also commented that Taco Bell would not want to go in the retail building.
Mr. Seibel stated he understood that they needed to enhance the view from the north and the only reason a Taco Bell was being discussed was because they wanted to let the Commission know it was going to be there.
Commissioner Dickmann requested to review the entire site plan as a whole including the Taco Bell.
Commissioner Correll suggested seeing the landscaping plans with the site plan and perhaps a reconfiguration of the drives-thru.
Mr. Fortin explained in various situations the Plan Commission has been unaware of what will go on the outlots and it will be up to the Plan Commission if they wish to treat this strip center differently. An example of that would be with the Target outlots, the Commission had no idea until recently what would be going on those sites. If the Plan Commission wants to enter into discussion about something that might happen it would be up to the Commission. In the past the outlots have not been tied to the approval of the other developments being proposed.
Mr. Seibel explained they are disclosing more than any other developer would because they want to have a frank discussion. There will not be a fast food business at the drive-thru of the strip mall.
Commissioner Correll requested the final landscaping and signage plans come back before the Commission.
The Commissioner agreed there were unresolved issues with the traffic flow on the site and would like to see the site plan as a whole with the Taco Bell on the plan.
Mayor Bolender directed the item held.
Commissioner Kopplin motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 10:12 p.m.