MINUTES OF THE
TUESDAY, JULY 13, 2004
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Marhal, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Kopplin, and Commissioner Peterson. Commissioner Correll was excused. Also present were Director of Community Development Douglas Seymour, Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop and Doug Schachtner Director Parks, Recreation and Forestry.
Commissioner Siira motioned to approve the minutes of the June 22, 2004, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Mr. Seymour updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the July 6, 2004, Common Council meeting.
No comments or concerns from the Commission.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that they were being asked to consider the sale of two City-owned parcels at 2230 and 2300 W. Southland Drive. Since this is City-owned land, the Plan Commission is required to make some recommendation on this proposal to the Common Council. The City acquired these properties for the park purposes in 1956. However, there are no deed restrictions prohibiting the sale of these lots for anything other than park purposes. In 1993, the City amended the official map for this neighborhood to identify a larger neighborhood park site to the south.
The floodplain maps created as part of the stormwater management master plan identify portions of these properties as floodway. It is not likely that the easternmost lot would be considered buildable under the proposed floodway boundary. The City could either retain the eastern lot, or include it in the sale of the remaining lot to form a larger parcel.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned what the purpose the east lot would have for the City if it retained the parcel. Mr. Seymour stated it would not have a purpose for development because of the proposed floodplain ordinance.
Commissioner Marhal suggested selling both parcels because the eastern parcel is not being utilized at this time even though it has a tennis court at this time. Mr. Schachtner explained at this time there is an asphalted area for basketball and tennis combination area.
Commissioner Kopplin stated that the City could sell both lots at this time because the floodplain map has not been adopted. Mr. Seymour suggested that the City not put someone in that situation and let someone put up a house on a lot that would be nonconforming when the floodplain map was adopted. Commissioner Kopplin advised that the City combine the two lots and sell it as one lot.
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that they favorably consider the sale of the City-owned parcels at 2230 and 2300 W. Southland Drive.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds.
Larry Willan, 2121 W. Woodward, questioned the floodplain and the combination of the two lots. He expressed concern for the location of the proposed floodplain on the eastern lot.
Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that at their last meeting, the Commission recommended to the Council that the property at 9444 S. Chicago Road be rezoned from B-2, Community Business to B-4, Highway Business, and that a conditional use permit be granted for the operation of a gasoline service station and car wash. Conditions and restrictions were prepared to regulate the conditional use, and include supplemental language.
Greg Puetz, owner, questioned the hours of operation in the conditions and restrictions and requested that they be allowed to operate from 5 a.m. to 11 p.m. seven days a week and pay at the pump would only be during business hours. Mr. Seymour stated that would not be a problem if the commission concurred.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if at the last meeting the Commission concurred with 10 or 11p.m. Mr. Seymour explained the Commission did not vote on that issue. Commissioner Kopplin stated it was her belief that it would be closed at 10 o’clock and questioned the reason for staying open until 11 p.m.. Mr. Puetz explained that they were looking to service the third shift customers.
Commissioner Siira explained that he would be more comfortable with the 10 o’clock shut down time because of the residential neighborhood and the lights from the business.
Commissioner Marhal did not have a problem with the 11 o’clock closing time because it was a high traffic area already.
Mayor Bolender stated he wanted to have the service available for the residents of the fourth district.
Mr. Al Sweet, 3615 E. Northbrook Blvd., explained the luminary plan for the business and that with the plan it should not be a problem for the neighbors. Commissioner Kopplin suggested a compromise and have the business close at 10:30 p.m.
Ms. Tina Lemke, 3730 E. Ryan Road, disagreed with the 10:30 p.m. because of the noise and the lights.
Rosemarie Annonson, 3920 E. Ryan Road, expressed concern for the water runoff in the area and the development of this business.
Commissioner Marhal stated there was runoff with the previous restaurant at the site and there should not be significant runoff from this proposed business.
Ken Katzer, 3730 E. Ryan Road, expressed concern for soil contamination. Mr. Sweet explained the process of the “sniffer” system and how it would alert them of any spills to prevent the contamination of the ground water and the soil.
Commissioner Marhal and Dickmann stated they had no problem with the 11 o’clock closing time.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if tankers coming and going could be controlled by the owner. The owner indicated that he could.
Rosemarie Annonson requested a restriction on the car wash and vacuum cleaners after 9 p.m.. Mayor Bolender explained that the noise from them would not make enough noise to bother the neighbors.
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the attached conditions and restrictions be adopted to regulate the conditional use of the property at 9444 S. Chicago Road for a gasoline station and car wash after a public hearing and that the hours of operation be limited to 5 a.m. – 11 p.m. daily.
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, Dickmann, aye; Jackson, aye; Marhal, aye; Siira, nay; Foeckler, aye; Bolender, aye; Kopplin, nay; Peterson, nay. Motion carries.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Jack Collier was requesting Plan Commission approval of a phasing plan for the 148 unit condominium complex known as Ashbury Woods. On November 19, 2002, the Oak Creek Common Council adopted Ordinance No. 2225, amending the conditions and restrictions for the multifamily development. The Plan Commission’s review and approval of a phasing plan will make it possible for the continuation of vegetation removal activities in conjunction with the construction of the first phase.
Mayor Bolender questioned if the project was started on time. Mr. Seymour stated the removal of trees was observed on the day or very close to the eighteen month expiration. When it was observed that trees were being removed it fell within the eighteen month period.
Mayor Bolender questioned when it was observed. Mr. Seymour replied the day it was brought to his attention, it was his belief that it was at the end of the eighteen month window.
Commissioner Peterson commented that it was May 18th that she informed Mr. Seymour of the tree removal. She also stated that it would fall after the eighteen month period because the approval was granted on November 19, 2002. Mr. Seymour explained that an ordinance does not become effective until after it is published.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned if the ownership of the property had changed hands. Mr. Collier replied that the ownership had not changed and was still AW1 Limited Partnership, of which he is a limited partner.
Mayor Bolender questioned the reason for not starting earlier. Mr. Collier explained that he dropped the ball in not appearing before the Commissioner earlier for a phasing plan. It was his recollection going back a year that when he applied for the building permit he needed to get a lighting plan, landscaping plan and so forth. He forgot that he needed a phasing plan to clear the site. After the last approval, almost a year after the ordinance was passed; he worked with the Fire Department and explained the phasing plan for the road and emergency concept. The plan has not changed; he just dropped the ball and did not realize he was as close to the expiration date as he was.
Mayor Bolender questioned if erosion control fencing had been installed. Mr. Collier stated he met with building inspection once he started clearing and then it was posted within a day or two of that date.
Mayor Bolender questioned if the City Attorney had been consulted on this issue. Mr. Seymour explained that Attorney Haskin had been consulted and in his mind the action of removal of vegetation constituted the commencement of construction under the terms of the conditions and restrictions.
Commissioner Peterson stated it was an inappropriate question. She felt the question should be had they commenced in time and in accordance with the ordinance. Mr. Seymour suggested she address that with the City Attorney. When he spoke with Mr. Haskin he relayed that the commencement of construction was the point at which they started clearing vegetation. Commissioner Peterson stated that was not the right question and that it should be asked if he started on time.
Commissioner Peterson questioned Commissioner Jackson if the erosion control plan had been approved by staff. Commissioner Jackson stated there was an approved grading and stormwater management plan that has erosion control on it as a matter of course. From an engineering standpoint that has to be started at the point of grading operations. Clearing and grubbing does not need a permit nor does it need erosion control.
Commissioner Peterson questioned if a separate erosion control plan needed to be submitted or was it part of the stormwater management plan. Commissioner Jackson stated there is separate erosion control plan required in the regulations and many times that erosion control is shown on the grading and drainage plan which serves as both.
Mr. Collier stated as part of the original submittal there was a separate sheet for the erosion control plan attached and that it has been approved. Commissioner Peterson questioned if it was submitted and approved. Commissioner Jackson stated the stormwater management plan which includes the grading and drainage plan has been approved but not sewer and water plans at this time. Mr. Collier expressed confusion because he had approval from MMSD and a letter from them approving his utility plan and a water plan from the utility commission. Commissioner Jackson stated they have stormwater management approval, the sanitary sewer and watermain submittals have not been submitted for approval.
Mayor Bolender questioned if Attorney Haskin had given a written opinion on this issue. Mr. Seymour replied it was verbally expressed to him from Attorney Haskin that the date in which he started moving vegetation was the commencement of construction. If you are saying the date was May 20, and assuming that November 19, was when the Council adopted, that ordinance was published three to ten days after in the paper. If it is a legal question of assuming the start date of the 20th presuming that meets the conditions and restrictions he would present that to Attorney Haskin. What is being requested is a phasing plan and not whether or not what happened was in conformance with the conditions and restrictions.
Mayor Bolender ordered the item held until further research by the City Attorney.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop pointed out that since the process was started there have been minor changes in the fire prevention code and the procedures for fire protection plan review and inspections and provided Mr. Collier with that information.
Leif Peterson, 8590 S. Stonefield Drive, questioned if trees and brush could be removed before the phasing plan was approved. Mr. Seymour explained that he will check with the City Attorney and get it straightened out.
Susan Hinkel, 8540 S. Catherine Court, commented that there are many things that are presumed with the development as far as time frames and what can and cannot be done. The developers are taking advantage of the Commission and Mr. Collier had eighteen months to get the plans under way.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned what the practical result of missing the starting date would be. Could he just come back and have a conditional use permit issued again since the underlying plans are approved. Mr. Seymour replied that if the decision was made that the time of compliance provision was not adhered to then the remedy for that would be to reapply for the PUD.
Commissioner Peterson requested clarification of the question that would be asked of Attorney Haskin and suggested that he be asked if they commenced in time and is it in accordance with the ordinance. A number of stipulations needed to be completed in the eighteen month period; some have been addressed, but others including coming before the Plan Commission have not, and the question needs to be asked if it is a violation of the ordinance. The commencement of construction actually shows that it violated the ordinance.
Mr. Seymour replied that the question he would present would be whether or not the events as they have unfolded, whether or not they constitute a violation of that ordinance.
Commissioner Peterson also questioned if the ordinance would still then be valid and what would happen if it was not.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if it is found that the conditions of the ordinance have been violated Mr. Collier would have to reapply for a new PUD and it should not take that much time because the underlying plans are already approved.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that CenterPoint Properties was requesting approval of site plans for an accessory truck trailer parking area for the property at 7366 S. 1st Street. At their last meeting, the Council adopted Ordinance No. 2314, which approved a conditional use on this property for this purpose. The use of this property of accessory trailer parking is in conjunction with a related deal the owners are working on with an out of state business to locate in the former McLane Foods facility at 7475 S. 6th Street.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned how the underground storage area was used. Mr. Seymour stated that there was basically a storage area under the parking lot.
Paul Soom, CenterPoint Properties, explained that the stormwater detention system was a series of tubes and stone, similar to culverts, and would encompass the entire area with an outlet that would slowly release the water.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned the location of the wetlands. Mr. Seymour stated the wetlands would not be disturbed.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned the fence issue and if it would be part of the landscaping plan. Mr. Seymour explained that they were looking for Mr. Karfonta’s input on that issue to see if there were specific issues in conjunction with his landscaping on the south side whether it could be coordinated to provide the most effective visual screen.
Mr. Ron Karfonta, Learning Edge, commented that he had not seen the entire landscaping plan but would like to see a barrier or buffer for noise. He has trees and would like to see more trees on CenterPoint’s property for noise and to make it more visually pleasing.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned if the pavement could not be moved back from the property line to provide for a larger buffer. Mr. Soom interjected that they would have to cut down trees to provide more landscaping and the Learning Edge would also have to cut trees down to provide more landscaping.
Mr. Tom Philbin, CenterPoint Properties, stated there was at this time a visual barrier with the existing trees. Commissioner Foeckler replied that it did not look like the 30% green space requirement was being met. Mr. Seymour stated it was being met.
Commissioner Foeckler was concerned for the safety and noise for the property to the south. He questioned if there was room to push back the pavement and provide more of a barrier. Mr. Philbin replied that if there was room it would not be a problem to provide that.
Mr. Seymour questioned the distance between the two lines of parking. Mr. Philbin was not sure of the exact distance. He did reiterate that the majority of all trucking movement would take place before 6 a.m. which would be about two hours before the children arrive. During the day there will be some trucks moving but most of the trucks would move in shifts later in the afternoon and early in the morning.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the trailer parking could damage the underground drainage system. Mr. Philbin stated the trucks would not damage the system.
Mr. Seymour suggested that one option would be that Mr. Philbin and Mr. Karfonta work together to perhaps add the extra landscaping on the property to the south if possible to meet the concerns of both parties.
Commissioner Kopplin stated she would like to see that option looked at to meet the satisfaction of both parties.
Mr. Seymour explained the advantages that drew Mr. Karfonta to the area for his business are also his disadvantages. Every opportunity will be provided to work with these issues.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop requested Mr. Philbin to assure the fire department that the two access points would always be there and accessible to the fire department. (Mr. Philbin indicated that they would be accessible.) He also requested a commitment that the fire department would have the opportunity to contain a spill to the site without it getting in the underground storage and moving down stream to some other property without the ability to stop it. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop requested the fire department be privy to the planning process on the storage. Mr. Philbin stated they would work with the fire department in conjunction with the engineering department.
Commissioner Foeckler expressed concern for the children and proposed the Plan Commission hold the item until the next meeting and look at the landscaping plan further. Mr. Philbin stated that if approval was not granted at this meeting they could lose the deal and requested that the Commission add restrictions that they work with Mr. Karfonta on the issue.
Mayor Bolender expressed concern in losing the business if the approval was not granted and was willing to work with CenterPoint at this time to work it out. He questioned if Mr. Karfonta would have a problem with CenterPoint adding trees to his property to help screen the site. Mr. Karfonta stated he would like to see the trees on their property because of the maintenance issues with the landscaping. He suggested that trees replace the shrubs that were shown on the landscaping plan.
Mr. Seymour cautioned that landscaping would not hide the site but only provide a more visually pleasing site. Mr. Karfonta agreed that they did not need to hide the trailers just break up the site.
Mr. Philbin agreed to replace the shrubs with trees.
Commissioner Foeckler stated that if Mr. Karfonta wanted more trees he may have to expect that he may have to maintain some of them as a give and take. If that is understood he would not have a problem approving this item.
Commissioner Kopplin asked that it be put in writing and would prefer if possible that the trees be put on CenterPoint’s property.
Commissioner Siira questioned the distance between the parking spaces and the drive area because in an effort to widen the landscape area they may be able to reduce that area. Mr. Philbin replied if it could be done they would definitely do that and have it put in writing. They would only use the space necessary for the trucks to move.
Commissioner Kopplin motioned that the Commission approve the site plans for the property at 7366 S. 1st Street subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Marhal seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Marhal seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Meeting adjourned at 8:51 p.m.