MINUTES OF THE

OAK CREEK PLAN COMMISSION MEETING

TUESDAY, APRIL 13, 2004

Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.  The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Mayor Bolender, Commission Kopplin, Commissioner Correll and Commissioner Peterson.  Commissioner Marhal was excused.  Also present were Director of Community Development Douglas Seymour and Assistant Fire Chief Tom Rosandich.

Commissioner Siira motioned to approve the minutes of the March 23, 2004, Plan Commission meeting.  Commissioner Kopplin seconds.  Roll call, all voted aye except Commissioner Foeckler abstained.  Motion carries.

Report on Significant Common Council Actions

Mr. Seymour updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the April 5, 2004, Common Council meeting.

Certified Survey Map – Jeffrey Scott
8990 and 9005 S. 11th Avenue
Tax Key No.: 864-9002 & 9003

Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Jeffrey and Linda Scott were requesting approval of a certified survey map that would subdivide the property at 9005 S. 11th Avenue into parcels of 3.5 and 1.9 acres, as well as an outlot of 8,861 square feet.  The property is zoned Rs-3, Single Family Residential.

Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the driveway would be able to support a fire truck.  Mr. Jeff Scott, 9005 S. 11th Avenue, confirmed that the driveway would be able to support a fire truck.

Mayor Bolender questioned if the cul de sac would meet the City requirements.  Mr. Scott explained that he had spoke with the DNR and had approval for about 400 square feet of fill for the cul de sac area. 

Assistant Fire Chief Tom Rosandich stated that the hose line could reach about 300 feet from the edge of the cul de sac depending on the location of the hydrant. 

Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission these issues were all discussed at the time of the official map amendment.  While they are valid issues the Common Council felt the official map change was appropriate.  The CSM is in accordance with the official map.

Mr. Scott stated that he would put a substantial base grade that would accommodate a cement truck and should also be able to accommodate the fire truck.  He never stated that the driveway would be highway grade.  Commissioner Kopplin wanted the driveway to be able to support 70,000 pounds.  Mr. Seymour asked the Commission if they were prepared to make this a standard condition of other land divisions that have driveways that are longer than the typical driveway.  What is being asked is likely more than what can be asked as part of a land division. 

Mayor Bolender questioned if the code had provisions to protect the City if Mr. Scott did not put in a road that could accommodate the fire trucks and his house was lost.  Mr. Seymour stated that the road that was being put in was being designed to public street standards.  What the Commission is discussing is a private driveway. 

Alderwoman Lampe questioned the amount of times the driveway would need to support the 70,000 pound.  She also suggested that Mr. Scott look into a residential sprinkler system to help protect his home. 

Commissioner Dickmann inquired as to whether or not the Commission could request the building plans to come back to the Commission for their review before building permits were issued.  Mr. Seymour explained that would be outside of the realm of the Plan Commission.  The Code specifically states that the Plan Commission need not review plans for single family or two family homes.  The placement of fire hydrants is dictated by the design manual and the wetland fill permit is dictated by the DNR.  It can be made a requirement but what issues would the Commission be looking to make sure were implemented that can’t be addressed by the development agreement or the wetland permit.  Commissioner Dickmann stated the certified survey map was strictly a division of land and did not show where the roads were going to be or where anything else was located. 

Commissioner Peterson questioned if the dedicated right of way needed to be added as a condition of the CSM in addition to sight and building plans.

Commissioner Foeckler questioned the reasoning behind the Commission needing to see the building plans.  Commissioner Dickmann explained that there were too many questions unrelated to the CSM that were brought up that need to be answered.

Commissioner Jackson explained that the first condition of the CSM would require a grading and drainage plan be approved by the Engineering Department which would include the house sited on the map and placement of the driveway. 

Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the properties at 8990 and 9005 S. 11th Avenue be approved subject to the following conditions:

  1. That grading and drainage plans be approved by the City Engineer and Plan Commission prior to the recording of the map.
  2. That a development agreement be entered into between the owner and the City to address the extension of public facilities.
  3. That any technical corrections be completed prior to recording of the map, including the delineation of wetlands on Outlot 1.
  4. That a variation be granted allowing for the creation of Outlot 1 with a lot line that is not perpendicular or radial to the street right of way.
  5. Commissioner Peterson seconds and adds
  6. That the portion of the right of way on S. Chicago Avenue be dedicated to the City as part of the CSM.  First concurs.

Commissioner Correll requested that a copy of the DNR approval letter be submitted with the grading and drainage plan approval.  First and second concur.  Roll call, all voted aye.  Motion carries.

Certified Survey Map – Martha Borzykowski and Betty Boyd
6745 S. 20th Street
Tax Key No.: 737-9998-003

This item was withdrawn by the applicant prior to the meeting.

Plan Review – Gladon Company, Inc.
310 W. Forest Hill Avenue
Tax Key No.: 813-9009-001

Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that the Gladon Company, Inc. was requesting Plan Commission approval of site and building plans for a 29, 278 square foot facility at 310 W. Forest Hill Avenue.  This property is zoned M-1, Manufacturing.  The proposed site and building plans conform to the requirements for manufacturing buildings within this zoning district.

Commissioner Foeckler questioned if there was an opportunity to flip the building.  Bruce Stern, Inland Management, stated there was no opportunity to flip the building at this time because the drainage was to be on the east side of the building and it would complicate things on the civil engineering end of this project. 

Mayor Bolender responded that he did not want to see the dock doors from Howell Avenue and would like to see the building flipped to hide the doors.  Mr. Stern explained that when you come down the street you would see a projected office area and a suitably landscaped front yard area. 

Mr. Seymour commented that if the building could not be flipped staff would be insistant on substantial berming and landscaping along the Forest Hill elevation as well as berming and landscaping in the area between the parking lot and the truck docks. 

Mayor Bolender stated that the Ebenezer building would block the truck docks from Howell Avenue.  Mr. Stern pointed out that the Gladon site was the most westerly site in this development. 

Commissioner Siira requested to see the landscaping plan.  Mr. Stern presented the Commission with a copy of the landscape plan.

Commissioner Foeckler commented that flipping the building should be seriously looked at to hide the dock doors from Howell Avenue.  Mr. Stern again stated that the site was a ¼ mile in from Howell Avenue and would be screened by the other buildings within the development.  Additional evergreen trees could be added to help screen the dock area.

Mayor Bolender agreed with Commissioner Foeckler that the building should be flipped and the dock doors should be on the west side of the building.

Commissioner Siira presented the option of turning the docks to the north side of the building if it would fit on the site.  Mr. Rick Blemmer, City Scape Architecture, expressed concern for the docks on the west.  The trucks would need to drive around the building or back in off of Forest Hill.  Mr. Stern stated they would have to start from scratch if the dock were to be put to the north and they would prefer not to do that at this time. 

Mayor Bolender questioned if there was an ordinance preventing trucks from backing in off of the road.  Mr. Seymour explained that internal movements for loading for new developments should take place within the property itself.  Truck maneuvering within the public right of way is not an ideal situation especially in a green field development.  

Commissioner Kopplin questioned where the location of the playground would be in relation to the loading docks.  Mr. Seymour stated that most of the outdoor play areas would be on the east side of the building and some on the south side and age specific on the west side.  Commissioner Kopplin expressed concern for the diesel fumes and the day care.  Mr. Stern stated there would only be about five or six trucks per day to the building.

Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the future expansion of the building would require additional truck docks.  Mr. Stern replied the docks in the current plan would be able to accommodate any future expansion.

Alderwoman Lampe commented that the future development should be able to screen the dock doors from Howell Avenue.

Commissioner Siira also commented that the future development on Forest Hill should be able to properly screen the Gladon property from Howell Avenue.  He questioned the height of the building in comparison of the Master Lock building.

Mr. Stern presented the Commission with an overview of the entire building with future expansion.

Commissioner Siira questioned if the floor elevation of the building dropped at the north end doors.  Mr. Stern confirmed that the interior was depressed in that area to park a pick-up truck for the business.  Commissioner Siira commented that the general building materials and colors should work well with the area but suggested that the overhead doors be the same color as the building to help them blend in better.  He also questioned how roof top mechanicals would be screened.  Mr. Stern stated that the mechanicals would be located within the building itself with the exception of some small condensers.

Commissioner Dickmann suggested landscaping in the seeded area between the docks and the office portion of the building and would like to see a total blockage of the Ebenezer building with landscaping if possible.  Mr. Stern had no problem with increasing the density of the trees on the east side of the property and between the loading docks and office area.

Commissioner Kopplin motioned that the Commission approve the site and building plans for the property at 310 W. Forest Hill Avenue subject to the following conditions:

  1. That grading, drainage and stormwater management plans are approved by the City Engineer prior to the issuance of building permits, and further provided that :
    1. No building permits be issued for this development until a building permit has been issued for the Ebenezer Child Care site.
    2. No occupancy permit be issued for this development until an occupancy permit has been issued for the Ebenezer Child Care site.
  2. That detailed landscaping plans are approved by the Director of Community Development and the Plan Commission prior to the issuance of building permits.
  3. That exterior lighting plans are approved by the Electrical Inspector prior to the issuance of building permits.
  4. That sidewalks be waived at this time but applicants ability to object to full future assessment also be waived. 

Seconded by Commissioner Siira.  Commissioner Siira requested the landscaping plan be brought back to the Plan Commission for approval.  First concurs. 

Mr. Stern requested that the building and occupancy permits not be tied together.  Commissioner Jackson explained that the stormwater management plan was the reason behind that condition and if the pond construction went along smoothly it should not be an issue but they needed the condition as a control tool.

Commissioner Peterson asked for a condition regarding the sidewalks. 

Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, commented that this was becoming a potential problem area.  He would like to see sidewalks at this time to give individuals a safe mode of travel besides walking in the streets.

Roll call, all voted aye with the exception of Commissioner Foeckler. Motion carries.

Rezone – Demco WI 1, LLC
Part of 8201 S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: part of 813-9009-002

Commissioner Jackson explained to the Commission that Demco WI 1, LLC was requesting that a portion of the property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue be rezoned from M-1, Manufacturing to B-4, Highway Business. 

Mr. Michael DeMichelle, Demattia Group, explained the reasoning behind the rezoning request and the history of the property. 

Commissioner Foeckler commented that he liked the idea and thought it was a nice addition to expand the retail and commercial area of Howell. 

Commissioner Dickmann questioned if this was a conceptual plan and if it could possible change in the future.  Mr. DeMichelle confirmed that it could change in the future depending on who was being served by the retail center and it was just a conceptual plan at this point. 

Alderwoman Lampe pointed out that this was not the only site between Ebenezer and the corner.  There is still the possibility of another M-1 business between this site and the Ebenezer site and that this would not be a big box site.

Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that a portion of the property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue be rezoned from M-1, manufacturing to B-4, Highway Business after a public hearing.

Commissioner Foeckler seconds.  Roll call, all voted aye.  Motion carries.

Conceptual Site Plan – Honadel Woodlands
8351 S. 20th Street, 8382, 8400 and 8432 S. 27th Street
Tax Key No.: 831-9025, 9026, 9027 and 9029

Mr. Jackson explained to the Commission that Heartland Development had submitted a conceptual development plan for a multifamily residential development tentatively known as the Honadel Woodlands.  This would be an opportunity for the applicant to present their ideas for the development of the property.

Mr. Tom Gibbs, Heartland Development, presented his conceptual plans for the area to the Commission.  He explained that Heartland was looking to put in condominiums only and that they are becoming a necessity in the current economy.  The site which contains wetlands would encompass the development and separate it from any future development to the north.  The development would not encroach into the wooded area at all and in fact is not included as part of this proposal.  Portions of the property would be served by sewer from 20th Street and water from the tower.  There would be 384 units with a mixed type of building development to provide for different types of users.  The multi-story buildings with underground parking would serve primarily empty nesters and retired people.  These units are quite large and run from 1500 to 1800 square feet with master bedrooms that are 18 x 20. 

Commissioner Dickmann asked for clarification on the styles of buildings and there location on the site.  Mr. Gibbs explained that the multi-story units were up along 27th Street and there would be five of the executive buildings.  The eight family buildings (the garden style) with living rooms and patios to the rear and garages to the front are located all along the proposed street and along the detention pond.  The chateau style with major modifications from what were previously built would be on the internal part of the project.  There would only be one city street proposed at this time and the rest would be private streets that don’t require maintenance by the City.

Mayor Bolender questioned the size of the property.  Mr. Gibbs stated it was 43 acres with a density of 387 units with a single family lot off of 20th Street which would bring it down to 9 units per acre.  Mayor Bolender questioned the access to 27th Street and the total number of potential people living in the development.  Mr. Gibbs replied that there would only be one access to 27th Street and that similar profiles would give for about 2 people max per unit. 

Commissioner Kopplin questioned if there would be access to 20th Street from the development.  Mr. Gibbs explained that there was open space proposed from the owner of that portion of the property and it did not indicate access to 20th Street but was not part of this proposal. 

Mr. Gibbs stated he did not have a problem making it part of a PUD that these units be single owner condos.  Commissioner Foeckler commented that he would like to see the portion of the property that was not part of this proposal as part of a PUD that would show no development in the wooded area.  What is being presented does not protect the wooded area. 

Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the executive style condos would be too much of a change from the existing condos.  Mr. Gibbs replied that the building was attractive and was well below the grade of 27th Street and would shield the buildings by about 10 feet along 27th Street.

Mayor Bolender expressed his concern for the density and amount of people in the area and the views of big buildings.

Mr. Arden Degner expressed concern for the amount of children that would come from the development and the cost to the schools.

Commissioner Siira wanted to know if there was a potential for retail development with residential above it with a mixed use.  Mr. Gibbs explained that there was no interest in that type of development in the area except for a fuel station and they did not want to present that type of development.

Alderman Lampe expressed her concern for the amount of people in the development and there being only one access to 27th Street.  Mr. Elroy Honadel, 8304 S. 27th Street, commented that there were almost as many homes and condos in the existing development to the south and there is hardly ever two cars coming out of that development at the same time.  The traffic problems come where all business is allowed not from residential areas.  He expressed his concern for using up the land in the area with single family homes and businesses. 

Natural Resources Inventory – Gregg Schmidt
7921 and 7981 S. 20th Street
Tax Key No.: 810-9998 and 9999

Mr. Jackson explained to the Commission that Gregg Schmidt had submitted a certified survey map that would redivide the two properties at 7921 and 7981 S. 20th Street into three parcels.  The Comprehensive Plan identifies these parcels as being within a Limited Development Area and Mr. Schmidt is seeking guidance from the Commission as to what level of development is appropriate in this area.

Commissioner Kopplin questioned if there had been discussions in the Engineering Department regarding this property and what the feeling of the Department was regarding the property.  Commissioner Jackson stated that in working with Mr. Schmidt there have been changes to the requirements for protecting the wetlands and retaining walls would be required because of the amount of fill on the site.  Before the enlarged footpad it would have been possible to build on all three parcels but at this point he would lose one lot.

Commissioner Foeckler questioned the amount of trees that would be lost with the proposed lots.  Mr. Schmidt replied that most of the trees would stay and just the scrub would be taken out.  Any trees that would be removed would be replaced in the landscaping around the homes. 

Without being grandfathered in Mr. Schmidt would lose a lot in this proposal.  The feelings of the Commission were that he would not be grandfathered in because he received no approvals before the changes adopted.

Commissioner Dickmann motioned to adjourn.  Commissioner Peterson seconds.  Roll call, all voted aye.  Meeting adjourned at 10:05 p.m.