TUESDAY, MARCH 23, 2004
Acting Mayor Kopplin called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Marhal, Commissioner Siira, Mayor Bolender, Commission Kopplin, Commissioner Correll and Commissioner Peterson. Also present were Director of Community Development Douglas Seymour and Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop.
Commissioner Siira motioned to approve the minutes of the March 9, 2004, Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Seymour updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the March 16, 2004, Common Council meetings. Commissioner Kopplin commented that the Chapter 14 change to legal nonconforming was a significant change that the Commission should know about.
Certified Survey Map – Marilyn Blasczyk
3271 E. Elm Road
Tax Key No.: 969-9024
The applicant withdrew this item before the meeting. It will be presented again at a later date after revisions.
Rezone – Marilyn Blasczyk
3271 E. Elm Road
Tax Key No.: 969-9024
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Marilyn Blasczyk was requesting that a portion of the property at 3271 E. Elm Road be rezoned from ER, Equestrian Residential to Rs-2, Single Family Residential. The rezoning would only be applicable to a 27,877 square foot parcel proposed to be subdivided from the existing outlot.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the frontage would be sufficient for the remaining property. Mr. Seymour responded that as it stands it would not be sufficient frontage but the revisions to the land division that would be presented at a later meeting would correct that situation.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the changes would allow for a future street at a later date if necessary or would it require a variance. Mr. Seymour explained that it created a situation where no variation would be required because the lot meets the minimum requirements for the ER zoning district.
Marilyn Blasczyk, 3281 E. Elm Road, explained to the Commission the reason for her request and that the certified survey map for the parcel would be resubmitted after revisions.
Commissioner Correll motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that a portion of the property at 3271 E. Elm Road be rezoned from ER, Equestrian Residential to Rs-2, Single Family Residential after a public hearing.
Commissioner Marhal seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Certified Survey Map – Judith Grall and The
Conservation Fund
1731 E. Drexel Avenue
Tax Key No.: 816-9992
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that The Conservation Fund, on behalf of the property owner, Judith Grall was requesting approval of a certified survey map that would subdivide a 2.3-acre parcel containing the existing home from the property at 1731 E. Drexel Avenue. The remainder of the 24.4 acres would be acquired by The Conservation Fund, who would in turn place a conservation easement prohibiting future development on the property.
Commissioner Kopplin questioned if the high part of this property was what was being split off for The Conservation Fund. Mr. Seymour stated that there were areas of the parcel being subdivided that could be developed and the question was posed to The Conservation Fund. It was not the mission of The Conservation Fund to acquire property for future development and they are choosing to place the conservation easement on the entire area of lot 1.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if land with the conservancy designation could be farmed. Mr. Dave Clutter representing The Conservation Fund explained that in some cases they do continue farming the land but it depends on whether or not funds are available to restore the land. This property would be restored as soon as possible and would not be farmed.
Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, questioned the location of the property and its proximity to the City center. It seems foolish to take a prime piece of property adjacent to a major park to be designated as unbuildable. Mr. Seymour stated that may be the case but it was not the City proposing the conservation easement it was the property owners request. Mayor Bolender stated it was the property owners right to have the conservation designation on the property.
Scott Espeseth, SP Enterprises, questioned the existing zoning on the property. Mr. Seymour stated it was zoned Rs-1. Mr. Espeseth questioned if the land was going to be taken off of the tax rolls as an Rs-1 valued piece of property. Mr. Seymour explained that the issue of the economic impact of this would be something the Council would explore. In past practice lands under the ownership of the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewer District are tax exempt and often are donated to the municipality in which they are located.
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the property at 1731 E. Drexel Avenue be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. That any technical corrections be completed prior to recording of the map.
Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
The following item is presented verbatim at the request of Alderwoman Kopplin.
Temporary Use – Miracle Homes
7750 S. 13th Street
Tax Key No.: 816-9992
Mr. Seymour: Item d under new business is a request for a temporary use by Miracle Homes for the property at 7750 S. 13th Street. Miracle Homes is requesting approval of plans to construct four model homes on this property. More information is contained in the letter that hopefully you should have received as part of your packet although I don’t see it as part of mine. Mel could you …
Commissioner Kopplin: No.
Mr. Seymour: Thank you. Mel is making copies of that for you. Section 17.0204 of the Code does allow real estate sales office as permitted temporary uses in any residential zoning district; however, any temporary use that exceeds fourteen days requires approval of the Plan Commission. So, essentially any temporary use listed amongst those can be approved by the Building Commissioner for a period not to exceed two weeks. If it is longer than that it takes approval from the Plan Commission. Real estate sales offices or model homes are certainly not something that is unique and there are several other instances in the City where model homes are being used for temporary sales offices. I guess one difference here is that the scope of operation taking place from within these model homes and the fact that they are not part of the subdivision for which the homes are being sold. Essentially there are four lots here and typically when you have model homes you have a model that is advertising the lots within that subdivision. This is not the case here. There is a little bit of a variation on what is typically seen in the City and elsewhere. Again, according to the business plan it is Miracle Homes intentions to use these for a period of five years and we are a little bit concerned about that and it is questionable of whether a temporary use of five years can really be considered temporary under the provisions of this ordinance. In the past the Plan Commission has reviewed and approved temporary uses for periods ranging in duration from six months to two years. A temporary use of five years probably is a little bit more than what was envisioned by the Code although there is a gray area there that is not specifically spelled out as far as how long the Commission has discretion for approving temporary uses. In any case, I believe a duration of two years appears to be more appropriate and after that point the applicants are certainly able to come back and request an extension of the Plan Commission. If this temporary use were to be approved it should be with the understanding that the model homes developed on these properties are constructed in accordance with the standards governing homes in the Rs-3 zoning district. By that I mean that according the plans and exhibits that the applicants are proposing….
Commissioner Kopplin: Have you got a couple extra? I am gonna take it and let the people in the audience that this effects see it.
Mr. Seymour: The applicants are proposing a frontage road of sorts with the four homes on the four lots coming off of 13th Street. The frontage road concept, as I will refer to it, poses some problems for staff and we don’t feel it is acceptable. We essentially see it as being a parking lot for the development and we have some concerns about that. We believe that if these model homes are to be allowed as temporary uses in this residential neighborhood that they should be designed in accordance with the standards for development in that neighborhood. Essentially, if you look at them they should be no different than the homes that are being developed in the neighborhood. That means driveways in accordance with what was approved on the certified survey map for this and although the concept for this little frontage road and semi circular driveway certainly is interesting and shows some creativity I question, and there have been others on staff who have questioned the long term effects of such an arrangement on the owners of the property. Especially with respect to how 13th Street may at one point may be extended or expanded and some maintenance issues with respect to that arrangement. So, it would be staff’s recommendation that if the Plan Commission were to approve this temporary use that it should be with the caveat that the homes be developed in accordance with the certified survey map that was recently approved by Common Council and that there be individual driveways in so much as they are allowed by Milwaukee County for 13th Street. If additional parking is required for these model homes than certainly the depth of these parcels does allow for parking spaces to be constructed on a temporary basis within the lots themselves. We feel that would be a more appropriate situation. With respect to signage and lighting staff feels that the signage should be restricted to a maximum of eight square feet per lot and should not be illuminated. That is more in line with the standards for real estate signs and single districts in the Code. Again, although there is not a specific standard for signage for temporary uses, staff in reviewing the applications, feels that the standard in which we should be looking to is that the temporary use should fit in with the neighborhood. It should model homes within a residential neighborhood rather than residential homes adjacent to what are essentially four offices advertising Miracle Homes. So, while we really are not opposed to the concept of having model home there we feel that the design should be altered such that it fits in better with the residential neighborhood. That means, from staffs perspective, that the driveway arrangement not be approved. Any questions or comments from the Commissioners?
Commissioner Kopplin: Yes. I have a few questions.
Mayor Bolender: Betty Kopplin.
Commissioner Kopplin: First of all I wanted to take about five minutes afterwards to read this but on the conclusion is says that we are currently in negotiations to buy and close on these lots. Is Miracle Homes buying and closing on these lots? And the reason I am asking we just had a certified survey…I believe that Mr. Overland came in and he got the certified survey maps saying that he was working with the Andersons. He was buying the lots from the Andersons and he needed a certain time done because he needed to close on these. Which is fine. So, I, and the agenda item it says that the ownership is in Andersons. Now if he, with a certified map that was requested by him, Mr. Overland, am I right.
Mr. Seymour: Yes.
Commissioner Kopplin: And he did tell you that he was going to be buying it and he needed…that’s why we went through with this so he could get there to do the closings that he needed to do. Now, the certified survey map hasn’t been recorded yet because I believe we approved it last week. Now who owns this really? Does Mr. Overland own it? Because on the bottom here it says that they are negotiating to buy and sell these lots. Is he selling the lots to Miracle? I mean I would like to have some questions…
Mr. Seymour: Well I guess the overwhelming question that this Commission needs to answer is if a temporary use, regardless of who owns the property currently is acceptable on that property. Ownership either has or will shortly change from Anderson Brothers to Mr. Overland and potentially to either four different owners or to Miracle Homes. But, the question still remains, is a temporary use for model homes appropriate for these four lots.
Commissioner Kopplin: That is fine. I still have the questions I want answered. The reason I am asking these questions is because Mr. Overland did call me. I did tell him I would talk with the people regarding this if they could …would object to having it. I didn’t think three to five years they would like but, I did go to that and that is why they are here tonight. At the same time Mr. Overland did tell me if he didn’t get this done so they could hook with the model homes he had a very big buyer for a church that he could sell to. My answer to that was on that property you would not see it rezoned to Institutional because it is not big enough with the wetlands to put a church there. So, that is why I am asking the questions tonight. I need answers.
Mr. Seymour: I guess the question is whether Mr. Overland wishes to pursue a rezoning to I-1 for a church then there are avenues available to any property in order to pursue a rezoning. That is not the issue that is before the Commission this evening, the issue before the Commission this evening is whether a temporary use for model homes is appropriate.
Commissioner Kopplin: That’s fine. But, they all go, tie hand in hand as far as I sit as a Commissioner here.
Mr. James Overland: Hi Betty. I am James Overland. Basically I am closing on Thursday on this land. After recording the land I am going to sell each lot.
Commissioner Kopplin: Then you are selling each lot to Miracle? Is that what I am hearing from you?
Mr. Overland: I am looking at other buyers too. This is just one potential buyer.
Commissioner Kopplin: Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Doug, how come we didn’t get this before. I would like to have seen this with the ah…
Mr. Seymour: I agree and I apologize that it was not made part of your packet. I can assure you that it was not intentional that you did not receive that and as a matter of fact I thought that you did. My apologizes.
Mayor Bolender: You know I have been told something like that from different department heads and I just keep slipping through the cracks. And I really don’t like when we don’t get all the information and I know that you probably were busy as everybody else is. But, this is going to be the last time we don’t get pertinent information.
Mr. Seymour: Well, I wish I could guarantee you that that were the case Mayor. I will say again that I will make every effort to make sure that this doesn’t happen in the future. But, neither myself, nor yourself, can guarantee that this won’t happen. Again, I think that your point is well taken that this information needs to be provided to the Commission and I apologize that it wasn’t and I again will make every effort in the future to make sure that you get the appropriate information in a timely manner.
Mayor Bolender: The other question I have is where do we come up with the two years for temporary?
Mr. Seymour: Two years is on the outside envelope of a range of which the Plan Commission has previously approved temporary uses for. Again, the Code is not specific as to the maximum length of time under which a plan commission may approve a temporary use. In other situations the Commission has approved temporary uses for as much as two years.
Mayor Bolender: I think a year is temporary enough for me. Temporary usage and exceeding two to five and this is up to two, our building permits are good for one year. Am I correct? And then you have to reapply. Mark if you have something to say just come on up to the mic.
Mark VerHalen: Mark VerHalen, 1200 E. Ryan Road. I guess the only comment that I have is in regards to that length of time for the temporary use. You have to realize that even if this approved the temporary use takes effect upon approval I would take it. As soon as it’s published in the paper. Correct?
Mr. Seymour: It wouldn’t actually be published, it would…
Mr. VerHalen: Well, whatever steps…it would probably take effect within a week or two.
Mr. Seymour: It would take effect this evening.
Mr. VerHalen: Alright so, if there is any site work to be done on the property, driveways, access, street whatever and get the houses laid out and get an excavator, get a builder in there to get the things up and running you are probably looking at almost a years time before you are even going to see these models up. So, that actually means that you are going to have a one year envelope of actually… probably less than a year of …with all four houses unless they were built simultaneous at the same time. Your gonna have actually only one year of them being standing as models. In this case I don’t think two years is really out of the realm of reality. If you give them a years time they won’t even be finished and you will have to…the temporary use will be up already.
Mayor Bolender: Well also…
Mr. VerHalen: Especially if you run into any weather problems or anything.
Mayor Bolender: It also pushes it along that these projects don’t sit. Thank you Mark. Betty you’re up.
Commissioner Kopplin: Well, when I read the first article at this location it would keep these homes…model…homes open as models for three to five years after occupancy was obtained on the last model home. So, if the last model home is occupied and it takes five years to do it then you have three to five years after occupancy. I mean…I’m reading…I’m sorry I didn’t have the letter to because I would have put more time on that today but, I have a problem. So, I think you have people in the audience that might want to talk.
Mayor Bolender: Do we have anybody in the aud…just a minute lets…Henry.
Commissioner Jackson: Yes, I have some items that I would like to bring up and I will go up to the screen if you guys don’t mind. These aren’t items that I think will necessary attract or distract but I think the Commissioners should know some of the thoughts that Engineer had.
Mayor Bolender: Go ahead.
Commissioner Jackson: One of the first items that need to be considered by the applicant is the fact that this frontage road configuration where to go in a portion of it is in the Milwaukee County right of way. So, you would be looking at permits from Milwaukee County for construction in an area like this and for these entrances. That is one thing that has to come directly from the County. At the approval of the CSM there was a condition put on it that these last two lots this would be the combined access. Single access, dual access for these two lots. That is due to the County requesting that the driveway openings onto 13th be reduced and there was proposed as a condition of the CSM that a thirty foot wide shared access driveway easement be put on these lot lines. That would trigger this house having to be flipped so that the driveway would ultimately end up permanently on that side. In doing that flipping if you look at the half moon configuration the homes are cocked and we have got a grading plan that has been submitted. The grading plan is based on the normal configuration of straight on. The homes are perpendicular to 13th and the driveways come out perpendicular to 13th. The condition as proposed here is different from what the grading plan shows and would be different from what the actual final use would be a few years down the road.
Mayor Bolender: Henry. Where does the new expanded 13th come to? That’s in the works.
Commissioner Kopplin: Nope. Not for that section.
Commissioner Jackson: It is up from College. Rawson.
Mayor Bolender: At that time. What about the future? What about the future? How wide will that…would South 13th be?
Commissioner Jackson: I don’t know but there certainly would be more right of way extended to the east in here for an expanded roadway. I don’t know how much and I don’t know when. I think the section you are mentioning that is being done within the next couple of years is College to Rawson and Rawson down to Drexel I don’t know what is in the County plans, if it is a five or ten year.
Mayor Bolender: When we heard about this we were talking in the last Council meeting, drivable hard surface path between standard driveways. I think we had talked about that. Chuck I think you brought that up.
Commissioner Kopplin: Right.
Mayor Bolender: And I am looking at this and now we have a drivable surface which what you are saying is a continuous driveway evidently is what we have got here. Right or wrong?
Mr. Seymour: This is what Miracle Homes is proposing as part of their application for a temporary use.
Mayor Bolender: I unders…
Mr. Seymour: But, staff is recommending, is that these homes, if they are allowed to develop as a temporary use be developed in accordance with the certified survey map as approved by this Council at their last meeting.
Commissioner Jackson: Another item to consider and I wish I could draw on this. Again, the current zoning requirement for driveway offsets off of a property line is five feet. And let me take just this middle one as just an example. This is the property line here and if you extend it through the frontage road, technically there is asphalt within that five feet which under the current zoning code wouldn’t be allowed. I don’t know if that is just a matter of a zoning variation appeal or what. It brings up that question to us. I think that is really the extent of my points other than emphasizing again that grading plan we are reviewing for these four lots is represented by homes that are perpendicular to 13th with driveways coming out. I am sure the shared access drive here and then three individual driveways. So, this configuration doesn’t work if we are going to approve a grading plan for the future, for long term. I am not saying that can’t be worked out but it causes that question.
Mayor Bolender: So the drivable hard surface path can be blacktop. Correct?
Commissioner Jackson: Yes.
Mayor Bolender: And it can be between the driveways. Is that correct?
Mr. Seymour: Are you referring to the frontage road that they are proposing?
Mayor Bolender: I am referring to this information sheet we just got.
Mr. Seymour: Or the walkway between the driveways that they are proposing?
Mayor Bolender: Now Miracle Homes envisions adding a drivable hard surface path between the standard driveways.
Mr. Seymour: That’s what they are showing on the plan. Yes.
Commissioner Kopplin: That’s the car part. That’s the curbs frontage road.
Mayor Bolender: Where is that gonna take place?
Commissioner Correll: That goes away.
Mayor Bolender: So, that…that semi-circle is going to be the pathway between the driveways.
Mr. Seymour: Yes. That is what they are proposing.
Commissioner Correll: That then goes away.
Mr. Seymour: I guess you put us in a difficult position because we are not recommending that it be put there in the first place.
Commissioner Correll: But it says that it will be removed after we close the models.
Mr. Seymour: This Commission can approve a temporary use if it so desires and they can approve it in any form they wish. And if they wish to approve the temporary form…temporary use in this form with the connected driveways as envisioned they can either say that this goes away in one, two, five years or it stays there an indefinite time. That is up to this Commission. Staff is not recommending that it be put there in the first place.
Mayor Bolender: Well I’m sure not recommending it. Mr. Dickmann.
Commissioner Dickmann: I just don’t think that this section of 13th Street when you go look at it is an appropriate place for model homes. Whether it be this configuration or any configuration because first of all they provided no area for parking on the weekends. If you listen to the advertising on the radio Miracle Homes is all over the place. They are doing a super job of advertising and when I look at their business plan I think it is going to generate a lot more traffic on 13th Street. I am very concerned that if you have this type of situation without adequate parking we are going to start having problems on 13th Street. So, I just don’t think this is the place that we should be putting these types of model homes.
Mayor Bolender: I have to agree with you Mr. Dickmann. Anybody else? On the Commission, anybody on the floor have anything. Come up and…name rank and serial number please.
Dan Oelschlaeger: Dan Oelschlaeger, 7764 my property is south of the border of this proposed fiasco. Ah, I appreciate that this has been done quickly this little sketch. But, there are so many things that have been brought up and I appreciate the Mr. Jacobson’s (Commissioner Jackson) comments because there are a lot of technical things here. But, I just come from the simple thing and we fought years for this thing to be residential and we had no problem selling the land, the lots also south of me and we would like to see those lots sold north of me. And I just wish that more time would be allotted to find some perspective buyers to this and to me this is a business. This is not a residential thing at all. This is a business and we do not want a business there. It is as simple as that aside from all the other technical things that have been mention which are really appreciate because we don’t have the proper information right now either. Ah, that’s about it I guess.
Mayor Bolender: You’re right sir, this is a business and these houses are going to stand here three to five years and right after the last ones sold. And, as far as I am concerned this is the wrong place and the wrong time on South 13th.
Mr. Oelschlaeger: I think it is going to be a magnet for vandalism.
Mayor Bolender: That’s what I was going to bring up.
Mr. Oelschlaeger: It is going to affect our property also. We don’t need that living there for thirty-five years and all these other nice homes we have south of me. We don’t need that kind of thing. And, I think, I am just looking between the lines here, I think the reason they are jumping on this if they do at all or trying to is because of the wetland back there and they have nobody to want to buy that land. They buy this lot and the last part of it can’t be used because of the wetland. Which is fine, because I would like to see it nature, the whole thing if I could it would be great. But, I think that is the negative part of ah, that they can’t sell this thing so they are jumping on this thing. And it isn’t going to happen. Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you sir. Anybody else? Please step up and speak your piece. This is your City.
Darryl Schrader: Darryl Schrader, 7800 S. 13th, right next to Dan. Basically I want to echo his comments. It sure appears to me that they are planning on running a business in a residential area for a number of years and I have heard several other comments from some of you folks about concerns that you have that you have already beaten me to the punch at this point. But, I just wanted to urge you folks to ah, to disallow this request.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you sir. Anybody else?
Dennis Cieslak: Dennis Cieslak, 7781 S. 13th Street. I have to agree with my two neighbors that came before me that also if it became model homes they are going to have to be lit up all night long. And, it is going to look like a parking lot or I want to say Walmart, but a shopping center all night long. I don’t want those bright lights. The parking, I believe that circle drive was for the off street parking for the people coming to see the model homes. If you take that away they are gonna have to park on 13th Street and it is going to be a heck of a time trying to get out of our driveways. Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you sir. Anyone else?
Paul Tutzke: Good evening my name is Paul Tutzke, married to Joann Esch. We are just the property north of where this proposed ah, the homes are supposed to go up. We were under the impression that ah, he was buying the home, or the property to sell to have individual people put up their own home not, not to have models there or ah, not to run a business out of. And, another thing what Mr. Jacobson (Commissioner Jackson) brought up with the ah, that it wouldn’t work with the way the houses were configured on this property. We’ve had for as long as I’ve been there, twenty years and we’ve had photos from forty, fifty years, we have always had problems with flooding there because of the wetlands. And, the previous owner ah, even before, ah, what was his name?
Mr. Seymour: Anderson Brothers.
Mr. Tutzke: Anderson.
Commissioner Kopplin: And Mr. Schmidt had it.
Mr. Tutzke: Yes. And when he brought in the illegal land fill and pumped that area up it even made it worse and every spring our… it takes til mid June for our property to even…I can’t even get a riding lawn mower on it without sinking down into the mud and what not. And, if, if this configuration isn’t gonna work the way they have it setup it is even gonna make the problem worse and ah, I mean, we want single family there. Mr. Oelschlaeger made a ah, good point if then sell it and make it a conservancy for green space. It is perfect for that in fact I see ah, I actually feed squirrels in my back yard with corn while I get four, six deer there daily and they go from the property across the street which is supposed to be the Methodist Manor property which is dormant for whatever reason. And, there is coyotes, there is tons of wild life there, hawks and whatnot and I mean if they can’t stick to their guns with the single family the way it was presented to us then you know we don’t want to see a business in there of any kind. We would like to see that residential and we have been fighting this for, as long as I have been here and ah, Elizabeth knows ah, it has been a very long time at least twenty, twenty-five years so. Thank you for your time and I hope you’ll, you know, consider our wishes please.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you sir. Anyone else?
Elaine Witzel: Elaine Witzel, 7751 S. 13th. We have been there forty years directly across the street from this proposed zoning change or conditional use and we are very much against it. We would like single family homes, we have been fighting for that for forty years. We don’t want people parking there for five years coming and going. We would like neighbors but single family homes not a business.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you ma’am. Anyone else?
Mr. Schmidt: Mr. Schmidt, 7842 S. 13th Street. Everybody has used up all my reasons. I am against this project but, ah, the only one I think of when you think of models, I think everyone is aware of. Remember Bliffert Lumber, the garages that were there twenty years, or thirty years or forty years. I just, it is kind of funny, just this year they are gone. There was a Cadillac sitting, somebody must have had an old Cadillac sitting in front of it but, when you think of models you know this could happen after a long length of time. I am sure it wouldn’t but that is all the reason I can come up with now because everybody has used everyone else. Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Anyone else?
Alderman Koehler: Chuck Koehler, 901 W. Ryan Road, 6th District Alderman. Doug, maybe you can clear something up for me. We just discussed this at Common Council and we approved a CSM with the condition of the driveways which Betty and I had really worked on.
Commissioner Kopplin: Yup.
Mr. Seymour: Yes
Alderman Koehler: I guess I am confused as to how this could even come to play tonight because this is not what was approved at Common Council.
Mr. Seymour: Chuck, you know that anyone can propose anything and is deserved due process to consider their request. They are requesting a temporary use which would allow them to do this. It is not staff’s discretion to say no, we will not take this to the Plan Commission.
Alderman Koehler: But, would we not have to include the CSM that was approved at the Council meeting to show what was approved last week.
Mr. Seymour: I believe that we pointed out that it is staff’s recommendation that if the Council, I’m sorry, if the Commission were to approve this temporary use that it do so in accordance with the CSM that was approved by the Council at their last meeting.
Alderman Koehler: Okay. Because this is not what was approved so…
Mr. Seymour: Decidedly. Right.
Alderman Koehler: Okay. And I know you mentioned that but I just wanted to know the process. Thanks.
Commissioner Kopplin: And I have to say…
Mayor Bolender: Thank you Chuck.
Commissioner Kopplin: Alderman Koehler did bring up those questions about it and I asked him…I thanked him for his help in doing it. Because he was very concerned about some of the driveways.
Mayor Bolender: Betty Kopplin. Thank you.
Commissioner Kopplin: I have a couple questions I was going to say. I yes we have did conditional uses. Today I called Doug and I wanted to know where else in a subdivision we had a conditional use done.
Mr. Seymour: Clarification Betty, it is a temporary use.
Commissioner Kopplin: A Temporary conditional use. And I was told that Country Creek has a model up in a subdivision apparently that is completely done but they also have one that’s not done that they are working with. I believe off of Elm Road. So I wouldn’t have a problem having it there, I do have a problem here and I stated out loud and I feel the same thing as Mr. Dickmann does and as the Mayor did. I feel that it is the wrong place for the models. Now if they put one model up, I wouldn’t have such a problem and they have a model because someone might come and look and buy the model. But when you are asking me for three to five years after occupancy… last occupancy of the last model to do this, this is a long time and I do have a problem with it.
Mayor Bolender: Go ahead.
Scott Espeseth: Thank you. My name is Scott Espeseth I am speaking on behalf; I am up here speaking on behalf of the land developer for the single family lots that were approved last week. James Overland, he is a friend of mine. I recently met him, we got to talking and hopefully we will do some projects together, not only in the City of Oak Creek but else where in the metro Milwaukee area. I do have a couple questions to ask Doug and members of the Commission that might know the answers. Ah, what happens after the two year period for model homes if they don’t come back for reapproval as model homes?
Mr. Seymour: They cease to be allowed to operate as model homes.
Mr. Espeseth: So the Building Inspector takes away the occupancy permit.
Mr. Seymour: The Building Commissioner would seek to enforce the approval of the Plan Commission for the two year period and would take whatever steps are available to him to enforce that.
Mr. Espeseth: The model homes are a right under single family zoning correct?
Mr. Seymour: For a period…the Building Commissioner
Mr. Espeseth: For a certain period of time.
Mr. Seymour: The Building Commissioner may approve temporary uses for a period not to exceed fourteen days other than that they must go to the Plan Commission.
Mr. Espeseth: Okay. So it is a private property right for a model home. Um, these model homes they are single family houses. Miracle Homes is planning on putting…making these single family houses, kitchens, bathrooms, any major office space outside of the single family home concept.
Mr. Seymour: As I understand it the homes being proposed by Miracle Homes would be in accordance with the building codes and standards for single family homes.
Mr. Espeseth: So they are single family…they are in essence single family homes.
Mr. Seymour: Yes.
Mr. Espeseth: Okay. So, they neighborhood…the four home neighborhood is a four home single family neighborhood.
Mr. Seymour: They are single family homes. Yes.
Mr. Espeseth: Ah, it seems to be that there is an issue of the perception of the temporary use of five years. And, if you look at five years ago, four years ago, we were, we had the dot com bubble burst. My, my niece was born five years ago and she just had her fifth birthday. I am sitting there looking at her saying to myself it was just yesterday that she was born. That I was just told that she was born. Ah, so five years doesn’t seem like a long time to me. Being that I just recently went through this little birthday with my niece. But, can you put the ah, put the proposal back? I understand the reasoning why you want to try and keep a standard under the Rs-3 zoning code. A zoning code by the way that was developed over what twenty-five, thirty years ago.
Mr. Seymour: I think the last revision was in 95.
Mr. Espeseth: Okay. Ah, and I do as I have looked at this quite recently that I am gonna call it a frontage drive it’s not really a frontage road because it is not really going anywhere. It is servicing a four lot single family neighborhood. But, I am gonna call it a frontage drive and I’m gonna ask the Commissioners to imagine yourselves as homeowners now and a homeowner that is living say the second one from the bottom in that house. Now I am gonna ask you as that homeowner who has a say a five year old daughter who is just learning to ride her bike. She still has the training wheels on her bike and a homeowner that has a ten year old son that, that’s into skateboarding. Also, a homeowner that might be very popular within the community and has a lot of friends that loves cookouts. I would like you to think would you prefer to have that frontage drive given the traffic that’s along 13th Street. Would you prefer to have your five year old girl with the training wheels driving down your driveway into a frontage drive versus down your driveway into 13th Street? Or your ten year old son on a skate board down into a frontage drive versus down into 13th Street. These are single family lots they have been approved single family lots. But now you really have to look at the legacy that you are providing that four lot neighborhood.
Mayor Bolender: Let me…
Mr. Espeseth: Please…Now I have to I have to agree with Doug that that frontage drive is quite large. I mean it is thirty feet wide. That is a lot of asphalt. I have been looking for houses for a house for the last two years now. I have gone to a lot of Saturday and Sunday model home open houses and I don’t see a whole lot of parking out there. So I don’t really believe that Miracle Homes needs that kind of asphalt in front. Can I see it being reduced as a real estate developer? Yes. I can see that being reduced. I can see a requirement that you need to have a nice landscaping plan put up there in front. A buffer between 13th Street and the frontage drive. But, I see that, as a real estate developer, as a better plan than driveways heading straight down to 13th Street. And if I’m still, if you still not convinced of that I would like you to image yourself as that five year old that wants to get rid of those training wheels. Would you prefer to have the frontage drive at the end of driveway versus 13th Street?
Mayor Bolender: Now let me add something to your story. How would you like to be those people for five years and having four houses across the street or next to you lit up for five years.
Mr. Espeseth: No, no I wish to address your question.
Mayor Bolender: Just sit down for one second. You had the floor now I have the floor. I appreciate your story of the little girl with the training wheels. All these people I don’t…if they had any kids but there is a couple of people who live on S. 13th their driveways run down into the road. They watch their children, they have had kids. I can’t remember the last time someone got killed driving out of a driveway with a bike or anything else on S. 13th. This semi circle driveway or whatever is just not what I can see being needed. When S. 13th is enlarged, and it will be in years to come, how much of that is going to be left. This is the wrong place to have four model homes. You are putting a business in a neighborhood and I disagree with a 100%. If you want to develop in Oak Creek buy some land, develop it. And if it fits that’s nice but we are all finished jamming stuff in here and just saying the hell with it we want it. So as far as I am concerned four houses owned by four different people that want to put them in fine. But when you light up it’s a business to me. Go ahead sir.
Darryl Schrader: Darryl Schrader, 7800 S. 13th. I just thought I would offer the opinion of a father. My son is seven right now, he was five when we moved to 13th and my urging that you disallow this proposal I still feel the same way that I did a few minutes ago. Mayor, I think that you stated it very well. Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Thank you sir.
Mr. Espeseth: I wish to address the Mayor’s comments with regards to it being lit up. Is Miracle Homes at all provided you with a lighting plan for this?
Mr. Seymour: The requested lighting is in excess of what staff felt would be appropriate. You would note that staff suggested in the last paragraph that signage be restricted to a maximum of eight square feet per lot and should not be illuminated.
Mr. Espeseth: Okay. So they are not requesting anything above…
Mr. Seymour: No. They are requesting above that.
Mr. Espeseth: Oh. They are. By what?
Commissioner Correll: Till ten p.m.
Mr. Espeseth: Till ten p.m. And those lights are…
Commissioner Correll: Twelve square feet.
Mr. Seymour: The signs are.
Commissioner Peterson: The signs are twelve square feet.
Commissioner Correll: Signs. Illuminated signs.
Mr. Espeseth: The temporary illuminated sign that is going to come down.
Mr. Seymour: I think that we are talking about illumination as kind of a…it is really counter productive because if you had four individuals owning four different homes they could put up any level of illumination that they wanted to.
Mr. Espeseth: Within reason.
Mr. Seymour: Well within…I don’t know if they met the performance standards of the City, yes they could put up essentially whatever they wanted to.
Mayor Bolender: Anyone else have anything? Anyone have an opinion on the Committee…on the Commission?
Commissioner Dickmann: I expressed mine already.
Mayor Bolender: I expressed mine. Go ahead sir.
13th Street Resident: Betty I would like to ask you. You alluded to that he made a comment that, I had other perspective buyers.
Commissioner Kopplin: Well he just, yes he said that on the floor here.
13th Street Resident: Right. And that can…then he would have to come and get that rezoned for that purpose if he so chose to do so. But…
Comments from the audience.
13th Street Resident: I thought you alluded to a church or something like that.
Commissioner Kopplin: That’s what I said he alluded to me if he didn’t get this.
Comments from the audience.
Commissioner Kopplin: And you said that it was…What you said was that you might have turned them down but you didn’t tell me that. What you told me was that if this didn’t go when I talked to my people that you had a very substantial order from a church. And I said you probably…they probably wouldn’t get Institutional zoning because I didn’t think it was large enough with the wetlands that you could even put parking for a church. That was…and you didn’t tell me you had turned them down. So let’s just be clear on that.
Mayor Bolender: Terry Peterson is next.
Commissioner Peterson: I assume because most people have spoken tonight that there is no one from Miracle Homes here.
13th Street Resident: Another point, concern that I do have is the length of time. What Betty alluded to it could be up to ten years before these are settled and everything is done and that is a very long time.
Mayor Bolender: Do you have a copy of this.
Commissioner Kopplin: Which one?
Mayor Bolender: This one.
Commissioner Kopplin: No. I only had a couple and I passed what I had but I’ll tell you…
Mayor Bolender: Your right the way it is worded you could.
13th Street Resident: And the information that we received as you got it at the eleventh hour also. And ah, I know a point was made by Mr. VerHalen that it takes time to get these things rolling and put together. But I deliver for FedEx freight and I deliver to Walgreen’s all the time and these things are popping up believe me in two months time. And they are a lot more work to put up a Walgreen’s than a single family home. So, these things can be put up in a very timely manner if need be and you know it is very hard to believe that it is going to take two to three years to build a home. You know so those are just some of my concerns. Thank you.
Mayor Bolender: Ed Siira is next please.
Commissioner Siira: I would just like to share my opinion. I am sympathetic to the neighbors particularly Dan Oelschlaeger who lives right next door. I guess the best analogy I could have on this situation it would be like your neighbors would be having a party every weekend with the traffic and potential noise etc. I mean I don’t mind that once in a while but it would be every single weekend and I think that would get old in a hurry.
Mayor Bolender: Oh yah. Betty.
Commissioner Kopplin: No. I have nothing further to say.
Mayor Bolender: Okay. Anybody else have anything, you heard my arguments. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong place.
Commissioner Dickmann: Could I make a motion.
Mayor Bolender: Go ahead.
Commissioner Dickmann: Dickmann makes a motion that the Planning Commission not approve the temporary use of the property at 7750 S. 13th Street for a model homes and temporary sales office.
Commissioner Kopplin: Not approve…
Commissioner Siira: Siira seconds.
Commissioner Kopplin: Not approve…excuse me. Not approve or deny.
Commissioner Correll: Both.
Commissioner Kopplin: Not approve and deny.
Commissioner Dickmann: And deny I guess. I thought it was the same.
Commissioner Siira: Siira seconds.
Mayor Bolender: Have a vote.
Commissioner Dickmann: Dickmann aye.
Commissioner Jackson: Jackson aye.
Commissioner Marhal: Marhal aye.
Commissioner Siira: Siira aye.
Mayor Bolender: Bolender aye.
Commissioner Kopplin: Kopplin aye.
Commissioner Correll: Correll aye.
Commissioner Peterson: Peterson aye.
Mayor Bolender: That concludes the meeting. Anything else.
Commissioner Correll: Moved to adjourn.
Commissioner Peterson: Second.
Roll call, all voted aye. Meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.