MINUTES OF THE
OAK CREEK PLAN COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2004
Acting Mayor Kopplin called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Jackson, Commissioner Marhal, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Acting Mayor Kopplin, and Commissioner Peterson. Also present were Director of Community Development Douglas Seymour and Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop.
Commissioner Peterson motioned to approve the minutes of the January 27, 2004 Plan Commission meeting. Commissioner Correll seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Report on Significant Common Council Actions
Mr. Seymour updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the February 3, 2004 Common Council meetings. No questions or comments from the Commissioners.
Certified Survey
Map - Rodney Dent
7841 S. Howell
Avenue
Tax Key No.: 782-9988
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Rodney Dent was requesting approval of a certified survey map that will redivide the property at 7841 S. Howell Avenue into parcels of 2.3, 1.0 and 1.4 acres as well as an outlot for storm detention. The existing Culver’s restaurant is on Lot 3. Lots 1 and 2 would be available for future development.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned if Mrs. Walters (the neighboring property owner) was notified of the meeting. Mr. Seymour stated anyone within 300 feet was notified.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned why the detention pond was not moved from near Mrs. Walters’s property because that was her concern. Mr. Seymour explained that the Commission was not approving a stormwater management plant at this time and changes to the final location would be made at the time of the review of the site and building plans.
Commissioner Marhal agreed with Acting Mayor Kopplin that the detention pond should be moved and was surprised it was not addressed. Mr. Seymour questioned how he would like to see it addressed. Commissioner Marhal explained that there was a concern at the previous meeting that it abutted the property to the north.
Commissioner Siira made note of a technical correction on the outlot. The outlot should be approximately 30,000 square feet not the 102,000 square feet that was noted on the map.
Mr. Chuck Hawkins, Landcraft Survey and Engineering, explained that the location of the detention pond was the best place for the pond and it would meet all City requirements. Acting Mayor Kopplin explained the way the water flows on Mrs. Walters’s property and how the Culver’s property would flood her out if it were not designed properly. Mr. Hawkins added that he felt the new detention pond would make the water conditions better for Mrs. Walters because they would control the release of the water.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned how the water would be released. Mr. Hawkins explained that it would be released somewhere on the westerly property line.
Mr. Hawkins stated that the outlot had the flexibility to shift the location of the pond.
Ms. Carol Grundy, 9160 S. Nicholson Road, speaking for Mrs. Walters explained that she did not want the water retention pond next to her property. If they wanted to buy some of her property she would be willing to sell some to them. She stated that the Commission could not approve this CSM without a water retention plan that is satisfactory to Mrs. Walters.
Mr. Seymour explained that at this stage with a land division there is not a requirement for a stormwater management plan. Ms. Grundy wanted a water retention plan along with the division of the property.
Mr. Seymour asked what the release rate would be for the pond that has to be maintained at the property line. Commissioner Jackson stated the District generally required that it be about .5 CSF per acre at total run off. The runoff needs to be reduced to what is called a two-year storm. The City only allows .4 CSF per acre, which is even more stringent than the Metropolitan Sewage District requirements. At this point there is no stormwater management plan but one is required when they come back for site and building plan approval. He strongly suggested that when the stormwater management plan was presented to the Engineering Department they would talk with Mrs. Walters and explain to her exactly what is going on and reduce her concerns.
Ms. Grundy wanted to know why the retention pond could not be put in the middle or on the other side of the property. Commissioner Jackson explained that it was in the position for the general lay of the water flow currently on the land.
Ms. Grundy asked if the location of the holding pond was being approved at this time. Mr. Seymour stated that it was not being approved at this time. Commissioner Dickmann explained that from his point of view the Commission would be approving the location of the holding pond because the location was dictated by the approval of the CSM.
Commissioner Jackson explained that it would not be dictated with the CSM. Overall the engineers have looked at the lot and from the standpoint of where the natural drainage is now that is the location that the pond should go. If it would need to be changed they will have to come back and redo the CSM.
Ms. Grundy stated that Mrs. Walters has no say as to the location of the pond. If the engineers say it should go in that corner she will get it there whether she likes it or not. Commissioner Jackson explained that the Engineering Department would talk with her and show her the plan once they know exactly what is proposed.
Mr. Seymour explained that the Commission has approved developments with conceptual approval of the stormwater management plans. If the Board feels that they need more level of detail in this particular plan it can be directed.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if the detention pond had to be designated as an outlot. Mr. Seymour stated in cases where there is multiple owners and multiple lots which are feeding into a common detention basin it is a requirement to have the detention in an outlot.
Commissioner Peterson asked what percentage of the outlot would be used for detention. Mr. Hawkins explained that there would be flexibility to move the pond within the outlot.
Mr. Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, stated that this was a similar situation to the Korean Church. An arrangement was made with Mr. Van Beck to provide for the flow of the water. Acting Mayor Kopplin stated that was an arrangement with Mr. Van Beck and the Korean Church, the City had nothing to do with that deal.
Mr. Dave Holzman, 1043 W. Theresa Lane, Glendale, RFP Commercial. Explained that much time and effort has gone into engineering and design with the property. The outlot on the northwest end of the property was designated as the pond because all of the natural drainage from this property goes to that area. To create the proper drainage for the property the outlot must go in that corner. There is flexibility because if more room is needed for the pond it can be expanded to the south. Expanding it to the south will take more water away from Mrs. Walters’s property. When the process was started they checked with Mrs. Walters’s broker for a stormwater management plan but there was not one at this time. The water from her property also goes to the west and that is the reason for the location of the pond. The pond will help the flooding problems.
Mr. Seymour questioned what the plans were for the property immediately to the west of the parking lot. Mr. Holzman stated it would be used for a driveway. The rest of the property would be used for green space. Mr. Seymour questioned if the south property line for the detention pond could be extended for maximum flexibility in the design of the stormwater basin. Mr. Holzman agreed that could be done as long as it did not effect the total green space requirements for the credit union property.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned if what he was requesting was to have the outlot lines be moved at this time not after a study. Mr. Seymour stated that was his plan. It would need to be moved before recording of the map.
Alderwomen Lampe suggested that Mr. Holzman take a look at a stormwater management plan that Mr. Verhalen drew up this evening so that the water would not have to drain onto Mrs. Walters’s property. Mr. Holzman stated that water would not be draining onto Mrs. Walters’s property. It would go into a drainage area and to the west.
Mr. Mark Verhalen, 1200 E. Ryan Road, stated that given where the outlot was on the Culver’s property they have a choice to discharge straight to the west on the City’s property or they can discharge to the northwest on Mrs. Walters property. Mrs. Walters’s property is wet and has standing water, as does the City’s property. No matter where the water is discharged to, the water is discharged at a longer duration, which makes the land wetter for a longer period of time. A drainage swale would allow both of the property owners later on to not be affected by wetlands.
Commissioner Foeckler agreed with Mr. Seymour that the southern boundary of the outlot be bumped out to give more flexibility with the detention pond.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the property at 7841 S. Howell Avenue be approved subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carried.
Conditions
and Restrictions - Ebenezer Child Care Center
Part of 8201
S. Howell Avenue
Tax Key No.: Part
of 813-9009
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Ebenezer Child Care Center was requesting that a portion of the property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue be granted a conditional use permit for a group day care center.
Mr. Seymour also explained that DEMCO WI 1, LLC on behalf of Ebenezer Child Care Centers was requesting approval of a certified survey map that would subdivide a 1.5625 acre parcel from the remaining 12.7253 acre property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned why the parcel was not the correct size if there was enough land available to make it a conforming lot size for the zoning. Mr. Seymour explained that they were trying to preserve the maximum that they can on the corner for future development. The map will not be recorded unless the zoning is changed on that property.
Commissioner Dickmann commented that if it was made 200 feet it would leave a little corner on the northwest that would just be sitting there and he could see the reasoning behind the size of the lots.
Mr. Dana Albert, Inland Companies, confirmed that was the reasoning behind the lots sizes and when developing property you buy the size that you need and any extra just adds costs to the lot that are not necessary.
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the attached conditions and restrictions be included with any conditional use permit granted to the property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue.
Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, Dickmann, aye; Jackson, aye; Marhal, aye; Siira, aye; Foeckler, aye; Kopplin, nay; Correll, aye; Peterson, aye. Motion carries.
Certified Survey
Map - DEMCO, WI 1, LLC
8201 S. Howell
Avenue
Tax Key No.: 813-9009
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the property at 8201 S. Howell Avenue be approved subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Siira seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carries.
Certified Survey
Map - Fred Wobick
10222 S. Shepard
Avenue
Tax Key No.: 922-9075
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Fred Wobick was requesting approval of a certified survey map that would subdivide a 20,000 square foot parcel from the remaining 7.1 acre property at 10222 S. Shepard Avenue.
Ms. Nancy Stormer, 810 E. Oakwood Avenue, stated there was a discrepancy in the property lines with her property and Mr. Wobick’s. She feels that some of her property is being encroached upon.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned what part of her property she felt was being encroached upon. Ms. Stormer replied it was on her back lot line. She feels that it is taking somewhere between 11/2 feet and 6 feet of her property.
Mr. Seymour stated it would be looked at on a staff level.
Commissioner Jackson questioned if it was based on survey stakes that were recently set. Ms. Stormer stated that there were not stakes on her property but the survey she has shows that there were stakes. She stated that her husband saw Fred pounding in stakes last spring not a surveyor and they believe it was a few feet on their property line.
Mr. Seymour suggested the item be held. Acting Mayor Kopplin stated she would move to hold it if Fred did not want to address the issue.
Mr. Fred Wobick, 9978 S. Nicholson, the property is in the process of being sold and he was not aware of any trouble with the property lines. A certified surveyor surveyed it.
Acting Mayor Kopplin moved to hold the item until staff could review the item further.
Mr. Seymour explained the CSM process to Ms. Stormer and that if the numbers worked out right she may have to dispute the findings as a civil action.
Certified Survey
Map - James Overland
7750 S. 13th Street
Tax Key No.: 783-9017-002
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that James Overland was requesting approval of a certified survey map that would subdivide the property at 7750 S. 13th Street into parcels of 2.73, 1.34, 1.34 and 1.28 acres. The property is zoned Rs-3, Single Family Residential and exceed the minimum lot sizes for the zoning district.
Commissioner Foeckler questioned if it was being divided to make buildable residential lots. Mr. Seymour stated it would be allowable under the existing zoning.
Commissioner Dickmann asked if the shared driveway needed to be controlled in the conditions of the CSM. Mr. Seymour explained that the County would control that with an easement.
Ms. Joann Esch, 7648 S. 13th Street, questioned if the wetland areas were designated on the map. Mr. Seymour replied that they were. Ms. Esch then wanted to know if because the wetlands were designated if they then could not be filled. Mr. Seymour explained that the City’s requirements would not allow for fill but he could not control illegal activities by the property owners.
Ms. Esch wanted confirmation that only residential homes could go on the lots under the current zoning. Mr. Seymour replied that was correct except for the exception of a group home with seven persons or less.
Mr. Dan Oeschlager, 7764 S. 13th Street, stated he was all for the residential zoning but was somewhat concerned with the wetlands being filled or disturbed. Mr. Seymour again stated that the City’s rules required that they grade the site in accordance with the grading and drainage plan which will not show any disturbance in the wetland areas.
Mr. Oeschlager also expressed concern for the elevation of the new lots and the potential for problems with his lot. Mr. Seymour suggested he work with the City Engineering Department and take look at the grading plans.
Acting Mayor Kopplin questioned if the wetlands were not considered prime wetlands could the DNR give them permission to fill? Commissioner Jackson stated persons could apply to fill, cross, or whatever with wetlands but it would depend on what they were doing and if there were no other alternatives without filling or affecting the wetlands. It is rather tough to get the permit from the DNR.
Ms. Esch commented that she to was all for the residential lots but was concerned with the grading.
Mr. Steve Sharp, Architect, explained that the property was zoned for what the residents wanted and they have worked with the DNR to create good residential quality lots.
Alderwomen Lampe questioned why only three driveways were being allowed and there were four lots. Mr. Seymour explained that there would be a shared driveway.
Commissioner Jackson commented that he would notify Ms. Esch and Mr. Oelschlager when they had a grading plan that the Engineering Department was comfortable with.
Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the certified survey map for the property at 7750 S. 13th Street be approved subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Foeckler seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. Motion carried.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Marhal seconds. Roll call, voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.