MINUTES OF THE
Monday, June 23, 2003
Mayor Bolender called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. The following Commissioners were present at roll call: Commissioner Dickmann, Commissioner Peterson, Commissioner Marhal, Commissioner Siira, Commissioner Foeckler, Mayor Bolender, Commissioner Kopplin, Commissioner Correll and Commissioner Jackson. Douglas Seymour, Director of Community Development was also present.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of June 10, 2003. Commissioner Dickmann second. Commissioner Kopplin asked that on page 6 the last paragraph be amended to reflect that she did not say there would be crime or prostitution with massage therapy. First and second concur. All voted aye. Minutes were approved.
Mr. Seymour updated the Commissioners on the actions that were taken at the June 17, 2003, Common Council meeting.
No Comments or questions from the commission.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that GM investment Company, LLC had previously submitted a conceptual development plan for a multifamily residential development tentatively know as the Oak Creek Woodlands. The owner of the property has requested that this item be brought back to the Commission in order to continue the dialogue over the future of this property.
Mr. Norb Theine, 1404 Fairview Avenue, South Milwaukee, President Apple Tower Development. Mr. Theine explained to the Commission that he was not at the first meeting that took place but read the minutes from the meeting and would like to know the status of the reports that were requested from the City Forester and from the Director of Community Development.
Mr. Seymour explained that the reports have not been made at this point and that they are part of the tasks that are on going in the Planning Department and a report will be provided, as they become available.
Commissioner Dickmann expressed his surprise that Mr. Theine would come back before the Commission without a new concept plan. The Commission made it very clear that they would like to see some other concept plan besides the one presented earlier.
Commissioner Foeckler explained to Mr. Theine that there were two items that were very clear from the minutes that the Plan Commission wanted to see, one was that the woods not be touched and the other that there not be a street coming into 20th Street.
Mr. Theine stated that he did not present any new concept plan because he was waiting for the City Forester and Mr. Seymour’s plan on how to preserve the woods. Mr. Theine gave an explanation of the current designations on the property. He also stated the many ways he has tried to preserve the woods to this point with on avail. He explained that he has been in the process of reviewing and negotiating a procedure on how to accomplish the development of this area and still preserve the woods. There will be deed restrictions that will have to be permanent such as it can never be turned over to Milwaukee County. His plan would eliminate access to 20th Street except for a maintenance drive. He further explained that he would like a limited development with about 10 or 11 two family buildings extended off of Orchard Way that would end in a cul de sac. In order to make the whole plan work he would like to see Target locate off of 27th Street and would like the City’s assistance in making it happen. If this plan would not work then he would propose part of the development that was previously proposed and take it out of the woods and shift it to the west and adjust the zoning lines to accommodate the plan to the west.
Mr. Seymour stated he would be happy to review any plans that Mr. Theine would like to submit within the context of the goals the Commission has set for that area.
Mayor Bolender stated that when Mr. Theine had his ideas together and submitted them to Mr. Seymour he would sit down with him to make a plan work.
Commissioner Foeckler stated that he would like everyone on 20th Street notified of any future meetings.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that this item was held at their last meeting in order to obtain more information on the licensing and regulation of this activity.
Commissioner Kopplin stated that if this was going to be allowed the New Berlin code was the most restrictive and would have to be in place. Under 440.989 Local Regulation from the Department of Regulation and Licensing it states: a city, village, town or county may not enact an ordinance that regulates the practice of massage therapy or body work by a person who is issued a license of registration by the department under this subchapter. No provision of any ordinance enacted by a city, village, town or county that is in effect before February 1, 1999, and that relates to the practice of massage therapy or body work may be enforced against a person who is issued a license of registration by the department under this subchapter. In other parts of the regulation there are indications that it is accepted. There is a contradiction to some degree.
Commissioner Foeckler stated that he thought the contradiction was recognizing the difference between allowing it in certain zoning areas versus allowing what can be done while doing it.
Commissioner Kopplin stated she was not certain and she would need to know for certain before she voted on this issue. If this were allowed she would agree that the New Berlin ordinance was very restrictive and covers what the City was trying to say.
Mayor Bolender wanted to know why this was being changed if no one was asking for it to be changed.
Mr. Seymour explained that someone requested where a business that provided massage therapy services could be opened up. Because it is not allowed in any of the zoning districts the answer would have to be nowhere. Based on that situation the former Mayor requested that the Plan Commission revisit the issue.
Mayor Bolender wanted to know where this business was going to be located. Mr. Seymour stated that at this point he did not know. He also stated that this was a text amendment and not a rezoning. It would have to be looked at to see if it was appropriate for the specific zoning district not one specific place in the City.
Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know if it was possible to put this in the B-4 zoning district so it would only be allowed in that district.
Commissioner Dickmann agreed that the New Berlin ordinance was the most comprehensive but it does not state what districts it is in or how it is controlled. We would need to look at it and decide what zoning districts the City would want it in if we allowed it at all.
Mr. Seymour stated that if the Mayor wanted the person to pay the fee and submit an application that he could adviser her of that. Mayor Bolender explained that he wanted to make sure that the community was protected to the average degree of common sense.
Commissioner Marhal stated that he felt the New Berlin regulation would give the City the safeguards necessary. He does not have a problem with changing the text to include the B-1 zoning district because he did not want to impede anyone’s ability to start a business. The B-4 zoning districts are higher end rental areas.
Commissioner Kopplin stated that the B-4 was the least restrictive of any of the zonings
Commissioner Dickmann wanted to know if it could be made a conditional use in any of the zonings so that it could come back to the Commission so they could make sure that anyone who applies could meet the guidelines. Mr. Seymour stated it was certainly an avenue that was available to the Commission. It would give them an added level of review and an added level of protection so if the Council feels that there is an area that is inappropriate they would have the ability to restrict that business from operating in that area.
Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, stated he was interested in the extra licensing and regulation. He would like the Commission to consider every time this type of highway business needs extra police supervision if it would be accommodated in the codes. He would like to see it as a conditional use so that the extra supervision would be paid for in some way.
Commissioner Peterson stated that she preferred the New Berlin ordinance and thought that the Commission should not make any hasty decisions and would prefer if they looked at this issue further. Mayor Bolender suggested that the item be put on hold and have the person interested in the change come before the Commission. He wanted to make sure that they were not restricting business and that they were not opening a problem.
Commissioner Dickmann stated that if they went with the New Berlin ordinance that they would have a way of checking up on the operations.
Commissioner Kopplin stated that if it was to be in the B-1 it should be a conditional use.
Mayor Bolender directed this item be held until further review.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Jeff and Linda Scott were proposing to amend the official map for the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23 adjacent to the properties at 8980 and 9005 S. 11th Avenue. The current official map illustrates a cul de sac extending approximately 500 feet into the Scott’s property. The proposed changes would shorten the length of this cul de sac by approximately 400 feet. This in and of itself would not warrant an amendment to the official map. However, the Scott’s are also proposing to modify the alignment and design of this cul de sac, something that affects the adjacent property at 8980 S. 11th Avenue.
Jeff Scott, 9005 S. 11th Avenue, explained that he would like to amend the map so that he can build a house on his land and possibly add a second lot if needed to help pay for the cost of the cul de sac. At this time his intentions are to just put the one house on the lot. Because of the wetlands it would not even be possible to put the cul de sac in according to the official map.
Mayor Bolender stated that he had a problem with the cul de sac being placed on a portion of wetlands. Mr. Scott explained that the cul de sac was as close as he could come to the City’s requirements without penetrating the wetlands.
Mayor Bolender replied that the Code requires 70 feet for a cul de sac.
Commissioner Jackson stated that he believed the design manual called for a 70-foot radius or a 140-foot diameter and a 15-foot right of way, which would relate to a radius of 55 feet or 110 feet with right of way. Mr. Scott stated when he read the manual it called for 104 feet of pavement for a standard cul de sac.
Mayor Bolender wanted to know what the code was on a cul de sac. Commissioner Jackson stated that for a rural section it would be a 52-foot radius or 104 foot diameter.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop suggested that the Plan Commission think long and hard before changing what the design manual calls for. In fire and emergency response time is of the essence and pulling forward and backing up takes considerable time and there is a safety issue.
Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know if Mr. Scott could still build if the cul de sac was changed. Mr. Seymour explained that the rules for developing at the end of a dead end street require that the cul de sac be extended to the mid point of the home. In this case it would not be possible so you would need to change the official map to have a shorter cul de sac. If the road was extended as a full public street it would not be cost effective and you would destroy a great deal more wetlands.
Commissioner Marhal stated the proposed plan is by far the least intrusive into the wetland area. If you keep the cul de sac as currently mapped you would be going through considerably more wetlands.
Mr. Seymour asked the Commission to consider what the prospect would be for developing those properties in accordance with the official map. He explained that it may be better off having a cul de sac that was 10 feet shorter in diameter then having a dead end that has no cul de sac.
Commissioner Siira wanted to know if realistically if a fire truck were to come in would it be unrealistic to say in an emergency a truck could do a “Y” turn and not use the cul de sac. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop stated it could be a possibility. The only advantage is this is a shorter cul de sac and you would not have to back up as far. Commissioner Siira wanted to know if it was a fair trade off having a shorter cul de sac with a smaller turning radius versus the longer cul de sac.
Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know when Mr. Scott if allowed to would start to build. Mr. Scott stated in about two years. Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know if he would have a paved driveway to his house that would support a fire truck. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop explained that he would encourage him to have adequate base to carry the fire trucks and to keep the trees trimmed for fire access.
Mr. Seymour explained that Mr. Scott has tried everything possible to make this work.
Commissioner Marhal stated it appears that Mr. Scott has done his homework on this issue and made every attempt to preserve as much of the wetland as possible. He also asked what the turning radius of a fire truck was. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop explained that even on a cul de sac that meets the design manual requirements the basket does hang over. What was being presented at this time would be an improvement over what was currently in place.
Commissioner Dickmann stated that from a common sense point of view the City is better off going with this plan than what is currently in place.
Commissioner Peterson questioned the wetlands on the neighboring parcel that would share the cul de sac. Mr. Scott explained that there were not wetlands on the adjacent parcel to his knowledge.
Commissioner Marhal motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the official map for the Northwest 1/4 of Section 23 be amended as illustrated after a public hearing.
Commissioner Siira seconds with the added condition that the owner make every effort to keep the tree limbs clear within the boundaries of the cul de sac to provide for adequate use be large vehicles.
Ralph Doll, 1010 E. Fitzsimmons Road, wanted to know how Mr. Scott got the DNR to allow him to do what he is doing. Mr. Seymour explained that the DNR makes its decisions on a case by case basis.
Mr. George Sopik, 9002 S. Carollton Drive, asked if anyone from the City ever came to look at the proposed cul de sac and the road through the property.
Commissioner Kopplin stated she looked at it and there was nothing there at this time but a dead end.
Roll call, all voted aye.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Robert and Debra Pampuch were requesting Plan Commission approval of site and building plans for a 4,022 square foot Pickerman’s restaurant at 9011 S. Howell Avenue.
Commissioner Siira asked if there would be landscaping along the perimeter of the building. Mr. Seymour stated there would need to be at least a three-foot landscape area between the building and the parking lot.
Commissioner Dickmann expressed concern for the traffic flow for the area and questioned fire safety issues. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop stated access could be gained from two locations, the main entrance from Howell Avenue and the other just south of the Quick Lube.
Debra Pampuch explained to the Commission that they were proposing to build a franchise restaurant that would be 4,000 square feet with the vestibules and foyers.
Commissioner Siira questioned if a drive through would be anticipated at any time and also wanted to know if there would be any ground-mounted signs.
Ms. Pampuch stated there would not be a drive through and that the CEO of Pickerman’s would like a pole sign. Mr. Seymour stated there was a strong preference for a monument sign at this site.
Commissioner Siira wanted to know if the dumpster would be screened. Ms. Pampuch stated it would be in a corral with shrubbery around the fencing.
John Riphahn, Architect, explained the building materials that would be used. A lannon stone type of stone would be used around the exterior of the building that would come up higher on the backside. There would be windows that go all around the building and on the backside by the kitchen the windows would be shorter. The gables and between the windows would be a cement plaster stucco. At this point there is approximately 52% of stone and glass and we would like to see it built that way.
Commissioner Dickmann wanted to know if this was a standard design for Pickerman’s because there was a 75% requirement on stone and glass. Mr. Riphahn stated this was a new design they were hoping would become the standard for future Pickerman’s.
Commissioner Foeckler stated that the 75% requirement was pushed very hard on the oil change building and there is a precedent to adhere to that level. Ms. Pampuch explained that the building would not look as nice with stone all the way up and because of the way the building was situate on the lot the elevation with the most brick and glass ratio is the one that would be most visible.
Tuan Dam, Pennzoil Plus Owner, stated he welcomed the restaurant but questioned the precedent that was set when he built his building and would also match the Kohl’s building.
Mr. Seymour stated that if there was concern over the continuity of the architectural style what are the other options available to make it more cohesive with the design between the two outlots. He wanted to know if the green roof was a signature element of Pickerman’s or could it be made more unified with the whole development.
Ms. Pampuch explained that these are two different types of applications and a separate lot. She wanted the building to stand out and thought the public would view it independently.
Mr. Seymour stated if the Commission felt it was appropriate he agreed it was a great looking building but if the Commission had concerns with continuity then maybe there could be some other material choices.
Mayor Bolender stated that the green roof did not detract from the building in his opinion.
Commissioner Marhal welcomed the lannon stone as a nice change to the area.
Mr. Ralph Doll stated that variety was the spice of life.
Commissioner Foeckler wanted to know if the Commission was agreeing to remove condition No. 4
Commissioner Siira pointed out that the intent of the architectural standards was to keep the exterior insulation and finish system from running to grade. With the masonry base that runs around the perimeter of the building it works pretty well.
Commissioner Siira motioned that the Plan Commission approve the site and building plans for Pickerman’s restaurant at 9011 S. Howell Avenue subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Barbara and Trevor Cox were requesting Plan Commission approval for a zoning change for the properties at 7840 and 7860 S. Clement Avenue. This would involve changing the zoning on portions of the property at 7840 S. Clement Avenue from A-1, Agricultural to Rs-3, Single Family Residential. Portions of the property at 7860 S. Clement would be rezoned from Rs-3 to A-1.
Commissioner Foeckler motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that the property at 7840 S. Clement Avenue be rezoned from A-1, Agricultural to Rs-3, Single Family Residential and the property at 7860 S. Clement Avenue be rezoned from Rs-3, Single Family Residential to A-1, Agricultural after a public hearing.
Commissioner Kopplin seconds. Roll call, all voted aye.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that they currently have the authority to make reduction to the required number of parking spaces on a case by case basis as provided for in Section 17.0404 of the Municipal Code. The Code limits this discretion to commercial and industrial zoning districts, since the majority of the plans the Commission reviews are in those zoning districts. Under the wording of the existing code, the Plan Commission does not have the discretion to even consider reductions to the parking requirements in Institutional zoning districts. Staff is proposing an amendment to the Code that would extend this same discretion and review ability to all zoning districts where the Plan Commission reviews site and building plans.
Commissioner Kopplin motioned that the Commission recommend to the Common Council that Section 17.0404(a) be amended to remove the words “commercial and industrial” after a public hearing.
Commissioner Peterson seconds. Roll call, all voted aye.
Henkel Surface Technologies is requesting Plan Commission approval of site plans for the addition of a .48 acre parking lot to the property at 7655 S. 6th Street. The parking lot addition includes space for an additional 54 cars as well as a new driveway approach onto 6th Street. The landscaping plan that was provided does not meet the requirements of Section 17.1010 of the Municipal Code, and would need to be revised and resubmitted.
Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know why this additional parking space was needed.
Mr. Tony Antonopoulos, Architect, explained that an addition was being put on the north side of the building and a lot of parking was lost because of the addition. There would be about twenty semi trucks per day coming in and out causing congestion and that is why the additional drive is being requested.
Commissioner Kopplin wanted to know if there was any way the trucks could circle around and avoid having to put in an additional driveway. Mr. Antonopoulos explained that at this time trucks do use the south drive but it is impossible to exit from that drive.
Commissioner Dickmann questioned how the trucks would come in and out of the lot. Mr. Antonopoulous stated they come in the south drive and exit to the east.
Mr. Seymour questioned the need for two driveways on the east side of the parking lot. Mr. Antonopoulos explained that the trucks will use one drive and the other will be for general employee parking.
Commissioner Jackson wanted to know what the traffic pattern would be like for the twenty trucks a day that would be on the site. Mr. David Thorton, Project Engineer Manager, stated that there are three different truck operations at this time. He explained to the Commission how each operation entered and exited the site.
Mr. Seymour stated as long as there is an operational reason for the additional driveway staff would not have an objection.
Commissioner Siira questioned how the future addition would impact this proposed parking lot. Mr. Antonoupoulous explained that it would completely impact this parking configuration if it ever happens.
Commissioner Kopplin motioned that the Commission approve the site plans for an expansion of the parking lot for the property at 7655 S. 6th Street subject to the following conditions:
Commissioner Marhal seconds. Mr. Seymour questioned if the motion would eliminate condition No. 3. Commissioner Kopplin agreed. Second concurs. Roll call, all voted aye.
Mr. Seymour explained to the Commission that Paul Maliborski was requesting Plan Commission approval of a conditional use permit that would allow automotive sales on the property at 904 E. Rawson Avenue. The site is currently vacant.
Commissioner Marhal questioned how a large amount of green space would be included on this site based on the size of the site and the additions proposed. Mr. Seymour explained that it was the intent that the existing property configurations would change over time.
Mr. Paul Maliborski explained to the Commission that he would like to put up a used car automotive sales lot and would be willing to comply with any conditions the Commission would want. There would be no fluid change or tire changes on the site and he would also be willing to comply with any lighting and signage requirements that the Commission would want.
Commissioner Siira stated that traditionally with auto sales there is a high level of lighting on the site and he wanted to know if any parking lot lighting would be added to supplement what was currently on the site. Mr. Maliborski stated that he would not be adding any parking lot lighting but would add additional lighting to the building.
Commissioner Siira questioned if this parking lot was linked in any way to the retail building to the east. Commissioner Kopplin believed that it was linked to the other property.
Mr. Maliborski stated that he has a landscaping plan that was approximately 80 feet long and 90 feet wide. The shrubs that are growing wild at this time would be taken out and some low profile plants added.
Commissioner Marhal wanted to know if there were any conceptual plans at this time for the building. Mr. Maliborski stated he would use the existing building at this time and if he were going to remain at the site at the end of his lease then he would destroy the existing building and put a new structure further back.
Mr. Seymour cautioned that under the terms of the City’s landscape ordinance he would be prescribed to put in a set number of plantings including a number of trees based on the frontage of the property. It may not end up being less landscaping but more.
Mr. Maliborski stated he could work with trees that were taller than the vehicles without a problem.
Commissioner Marhal wanted to know if Select Auto Sales was currently operating on a different site. Mr. Maliborski stated that this would be a start up business.
Assistant Fire Chief George Krudop questioned if there would be enough room for traffic flow with the proposed parking stalls and the landscaping. Also, there is no location for customer parking and how is access gained to the proposed garage on the back of the lot.
Mr. Maliborski stated the original intent was to go through the area where the site plan shows auto display. The new garage would be used for porting and inspection of the vehicles.
Assistant Fire Chief Krudop stated that the State Fire Code requires a twenty-foot driveway for fire access and the present plan does not provide for that. Mr. Maliborski wanted to know if he put the access on the east end if that would comply. Assistant Fire Chief Krudop stated as long as there was a permanent access easement on file.
Commissioner Foeckler expressed his concern for a used car lot on this section of Rawson Avenue. Mr. Maliborski wanted to know if he was more concerned with the use or the presence of the building. Commissioner Foeckler stated it was the use that he was concerned with.
Arden Degner, 8540 S. Pennsylvania Avenue, expressed his concern for placing a used car operation next to a restaurant. If the City was trying to improve the area this was not the use that should be permitted in this area.
Commissioner Dickmann stated that these types of facilities do not generate much in the way of property taxes for the City. With the building be in such bad shape at this time he would like to see something go in that would tear this building down and get more tax money for the City.
Commissioner Marhal stated that anything in this area would be an improvement to what is currently on the site but questions a used car lot at this location. He also wanted to know how many cars would be on the lot at one time and what type of condition they would be in. Mr. Maliborski stated there would be approximately 15 cars at one time and there would not be any vehicle on the property that was in disrepair.
Commissioner Dickmann motioned that the Plan Commission recommend to the Common Council that a conditional use permit for automotive sales not be granted to the property at 904 East Rawson Avenue after a public hearing.
Commissioner Foeckler seconds. Roll call, Dickmann aye, Peterson aye, Marhal nay, Siira aye, Foeckler aye, Mayor Bolender aye, Kopplin nay, Correll aye, Jackson aye.
Mr. Seymour explained that essentially this item is on in order to make sure that each committee or commission is following a standardized set of rules with respect to the preparation of agendas, minutes and related records. The only question for this Commission is does the Commission prefer to maintain such a detailed level of record keeping of minutes or would they prefer the motions and specific directives that proceed from the floor.
Mayor Bolender explained that this item was added at his direction because the agendas and minutes from some committees are not being kept current. The minutes need to be typed and available. This will not be tolerated and minutes and agendas need to be kept to the set standards.
Mr. Seymour stated that what it comes down to is shorter minutes mean the minutes will be available quicker.
Mayor Bolender stated he felt that not every word needed to be reported and they should be condensed to a certain degree. The main objective is to have the minutes done in days from every committee.
After a brief discussion the Commission agreed to continue with the minutes as they are currently being done.
Commissioner Peterson motioned to adjourn. Commissioner Dickmann seconds. Roll call, all voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 9:53 p.m.