June 4 2003
Common Council Chambers
8:00
a.m.
Marge Kanar called the meeting to order. The following members were present. Marge Kanar, Jim Iwinski, Dennis Stefanik, Marie Myszkowsk, Alderman Grabowski. Also present were Doug Seymour, Director of Community Development and Bob Kufrin, City Administrator. Alderman Koehler and James Ruetz were absent.
Dennis Stefanik motioned to approve the minutes of April 9, 2003. Marie Myszkowski second. Minutes approved.
Bob Kufrin stated that the Mayor asked that the minutes be released or distributed within 10 days of the meeting regardless if the CDA meets. Corrections can be made at the following meeting.
Mr. Seymour brought the CDA up to speed on the objections of the CDA. He asked that if any of the CDA members had anything that they wanted to discuss, that they should contact him and let him know.
Mr. Kufrin discussed the Wispark program. He stated that Wispark will be spending a lot of money on planning, basically all the work that a consultant would do. The CDA could be the local impact with involvement with Wispark to try and deal with the questions and issues that they will have. Mr. Stefanik asked if Wispark was a branch of We Energies. Mr. Kufrin stated that they are but that they are owned by Wisconsin Energy Corporation, not WE Energies. Mr. Kufrin stated that the City discussed the economic impacts or opportunity costs of the power plant construction, WE Energies, WEC helped offset that economic opportunity cost by investing 10 million dollars for the first two generating units that are built in the City. There is language on how that is actually structured. Part of the deal is to protect Wispark so that we would not identify specific properties and then all of a sudden the price goes up because Wispark is going after specific property.
Alderman Grabowski stated that as she understood it they would be responsible for Brownfields and remediation clean up. She asked if there were any examples of Wispark development. Mr. Kufrin stated downtown Racine, Pleasant Prairie and Schiltz. Wispark is probably the top commercial developer in southeast Wisconsin. James Iwinski asked, if the golf course and Bender Park are so important, can they help with that along with the Brownfields. He stated that he heard that was crucial for the development around there.
Mr. Kufrin stated that Wispark agreed to start their environmental and economic analysis now. Nine months before the power plant project will be decided. They are going to invest the money up front, betting on power plant approval. If the power plant approval does not happen, they will turn everything over to us. They have no obligation to implement, unless they want to. They are really betting that this is going to happen. It is my impression on the golf course that until the power plant is decided the county is not prepared to make a decision because they cannot visualize what it is going to be like until they know what is going to happen.
Alderman Grabowski stated that the county did not know what level golf course to put in. Mr. Kufrin thought that when Wispark makes things happen, the county will get off dead center. He also stated that Supervisor Endries was not an advocate on moving ahead on the golf course and was not supportive of it.
Dennis Stefanik asked what is in it for Wispark? Are they getting their funds, their overheads, their costs coming out of the money that would come from the power plant. Mr. Kufrin stated no, it is like a private development company. Mr. Stefanik asked if the answer for what is in it for them is, they expect to make a profit. Mr. Kufrin stated yes.
Mr. Kufrin handed out maps showing the WE Energies site. He stated that this map represents the area of the City in Lakeview Village that has the greatest potential for redevelopment. The map is color coded for reference as to who owns the large tracts. He started at the top and worked down. At the top is the Southshore Waste Water treatment plant owned by MMSD, they also own land on the west side of 5th Avenue further north which is past the northern boundary of what the Lakeview Village plan looked at. A. J. Cartage or Oak Creek Handling, the large turquoise color is 77 acres and that is the old Peter Cooper Company. He further stated that we have no environmental information on this; we believe it is contaminated but we have no records in our possession that show what is there. Immediately south of there is a darker gray tract of land which is the former Hynite property. The Hynite property had a phase I analysis and a phase ll where soil testing was done. Immediately to the west is a pale yellowish tract of land called Wabash. The entire tract owned by Wabash is 22 acres. The properties in this area look very nasty. Mr. Kufrin stated that he was concerned that after they were gone that the City would find environmental problems and we would be left holding the bag. The City had a series of soil borings done along the property to see what kind of ground water contamination existed. The reason this is important is immediately south of Wabash is the City’s low level water intake property and there is a little orange box right along the lake front and going out approximately 6000 feet into the lake is where the City gets it water. There is a blue line running from the orange box that meanders along the roadway and it actually goes over to the water treatment plant. My concern was that in the future if you ever had to do anything on the main water transmission lines, if the soils are contaminated, it is really bad for us. The soil tests came back with contamination as PAHs which are chemicals in creosoting type chemical that was associated with the 1940’s or 1950’s operation at that site, where they treated wood. This property is going to be a challenge because there was also a variety of dumping that occurred at the east end or lakeside of their property. There was a lot of stuff that was just covered up. EPA and DNR have been out there, this property is going to be a real environmental challenge. We have notified and have worked with Sigma for a very long time to get them to prepare the letter to go to the DNR saying that we never did any of those things on our land which is the driveway, and that the contamination came from Wabash or preceding company. We are going to get out of the responsibility for cleaning up the contamination. Wabash is now owned by a company called Connell Ltd. We have had meetings with them and so far they have been amicable. We both recognize that the contamination, at least what hit City property, did not come from any of their current operations, it was a predecessor company. That does not necessarily relieve them of the obligation, but it is not like they did it. They still may be responsible because of how they acquired or bought the land. To our knowledge they did not do it. That does not mean we won’t go out in their back yard and dig down three feet and find all kinds of weird stuff that was buried, but in terms of what migrated off that was since the 40s and 50’s a long time ago. Some of it may or may not be significant again depending on what you do with the property. Mr. Kufrin stated that Connell was a holding company and to my knowledge they are not operating anything.
Marge Kanar asked, if this developer has the opportunity of purchasing this, whose responsibility is it for clean up. Mr. Kufrin stated that it is not ours, unless the City wants to get involved. When the redevelopment plan was discussed, we do have the ability to create environmental TIFs where we invest the money in cleanup and then the property tax creation pays back the TIF. Ms. Kanar asked if he feels the developer will be coming to us for a TIF. Mr. Kufrin stated no, he had several visions or options on what he would like to see and his general comment, would the City want to work with me on this? Mr. Kufrin indicated that he thought we would. It is consistent with Lakeview Village.
Dennis Stefanik asked about Oak Creek Handling the former Peter Cooper, and if they were doing anything there. Mr. Kufrin stated that they are holding that land until it becomes valuable enough to clean it up.
Alderman Grabowski asked, looking from north to south the proposal would be that Wispark would able to acquire all of these lands and do the brownfields, remediation and contamination cleanup.
Mr. Kufrin stated that Wispark will be looking for development partners. He also stated that he has been contacted by two different consulting engineering firms fronting for at least three different investment people who want to either invest here or invest in other brownfield locations. I have provided them with a report, maps and they are doing their due diligence. I have indicated to both gentlemen that Wispark is working in this area as well and they may want to partner up with Wispark. Wispark also indicated that a mix of residential is a little more unusual, they normally are not heavily into residential; they are more office, industrial or commercial. They do have partners that have done residential projects and Wispark wants to do something.
Dennis Stefanik stated that is where they were going before, to find a private developer to come in and do this, someone to come in and do some development on their own looking for City cooperation.
Mr. Kufrin stated that Dick Platt owns a lot of this land. Dick had this vision but did not really have either the wherewithal or the ability to pull in some kind of development person that has the expertise to make the project happen. In a way we are like Dick Platt, we have this vision but not a experienced developer who can turn our vision into reality. We have a plan, but we don’t have the ability to invest a lot of money. Wispark is going to be the City’s experienced development partner, who is going to be able to tie a lot of these things together. The only problem that we will encounter will be the complaints that Wispark will be making money. The City is helping the developer make money.
Mr. Stefanik commented that you face that everywhere. His concern is that Wispark was chosen, and it was not open to other developers, who maybe wanted to fill that need, because it is this public process deal. The City, being a public agency and who develops this and who comes with the plan and who gets the rights to do that and be the partner with the City, how that all comes in, could be called into question at some time.
Mr. Seymour commented that the City is not getting anything. Mr. Kufrin stated that the agreement says that they decide where they want to do the work, and they will let Doug know. That is how obscure, they figure out where they want to invest their money.
Mr. Kufrin continued discussing the map, south of Hynite there is also another grayish area that is the City’s own intake plant. When we had the soil testing done, there were also two samples done on either side of the little dot, where it says pile, there was contamination there. That contamination is coming off the DuPont property. This is basically the Boerke site EPA Superfund cleanup location. Originally this land was all owned by the Boerke family trust. The Boerke family trust got that land a long time ago. It is contaminated with arsenic from WWI munitions manufacturing for Newport Chemical. The little gray octagon little shaded area on the yellowish green tract is the area that is going to be cleaned up this summer. When we met, we made a presentation to EPA in Chicago and Dupont and El Paso about 6 years ago. We were able to convince them that the land was more valuable being redeveloped than just cleaning it up and putting a fence up. There was the potential to recoup some if not all of their investment. And they agreed to do that. One of the other things, if you look at the end of DuPont property, there is a little bulge at the end and there is a big indentation where all the land is washed off. They agreed to fill that end and extend the shoreline stabilization project across that point so that no more of the land washes into Lake Michigan.
Alderman Grabowski asked if they have approval for that. Mr. Kufrin stated they are working on that.
Mr. Kufrin stated that the original Lakeview or Return to Carrollville that Paul Milewski had done when we went to Chicago, called for a mix of residential uses through here. El Paso and DuPont basically said they would not allow any type of development on the land that would expose people to the Love Canal type of thing. Where the soil is contaminated they will oppose any reuse that would put residential uses over that. Even if it’s cleaned up and they get it signed and sealed by EPA they will have deeded restrictions and not allow someone to put a house right there, even if it is cleaned up.
This piece of El Paso is one of the most beautiful tracts in the City; it is heavily wooded, high, far away from the power plant, adjacent to the park and has potential for maybe power condos. The only known contaminants are right here, the Boerke tract is clean to the best of our knowledge. DuPont has also indicated they are willing to have redevelopment on their property and they are willing to invest in that type of redevelopment.
Mr. Stefanik asked if Wispark was going to work with El Paso, Boerke and DuPont and pull them all together in some joint venture partnership. Mr. Kufrin stated that he has been trying to encourage them to talk to one another. The vision that I am talking about is the plan that has been approved by the City. It is what the City said it wanted to see. He stated that he would like to pass it to a professional development company who has the resources to do the environmental assessment, to do the marketing and economics, and who has the contacts to pull other investors.
Mr. Kufrin stated that we are looking at Wispark to do the economic studies and for them to invest their money. It is an unique situation for the CDA to be in where someone else whose is risking all their stuff to accomplish a goal that the City would like to see which is the redevelopment of the lake front.
Mr. Stefanik asked if he envisions them coming back to the CDA or City or whatever to help in the acquisition of land. Mr. Kufrin stated that the City did not guarantee that we would do eminent domain but that does not mean we won’t. We did not commit to doing it, which is a judgment the Council would make based on the facts that are presented.
Mr. Iwinski asked about the benefits that the City is getting from WE Energies. Mr. Kufrin explained that if WE Energies gave the City 20 million dollars, the City would get the equivalent of 15 or 16 million dollars of value, because our costs are higher with public bidding and all the bureaucratic red tape that we have to go through that Wispark and private developers don’t have to do. They are able manage their money with a lot less control.
Mr. Kufrin stated that he would like to see the CDA be the primary liaison with Wispark and provide feedback input and suggestions to them as this project moves ahead.
Alderman Grabowski stated that she agreed and would like to see the CDA become a more active role than what has been done in the past. She would like to see quality condos, investment buildings. She stated that she is very supportive of WE Energies, Wispark if they are to move forward, just from the financial standpoint. She asked what the CDA role is and how active do we want to be.
Mr. Seymour stated that at the present, we do not have the staff. He referenced Franklin and stated that they have a full time Economic Development position, two full time planners, a planning manager and just now they posted for a community development director five, six people, that is our competition. Budget issues aside, if we want to be a player in this market we have to recognize we have to provide the resources.
Alderman Grabowski stated that she has heard from a lot of developers that it is taking 8 to 10 weeks to get a development agreement done, and that is not acceptable. She stated that Doug is a one man band and from the developer standpoint you have to make an appointment and wait, wait, wait. She further stated that Franklin is getting development and it is frustrating and would like to see that we get that same level of quality on out side.
Mr. Kufrin stated that he wanted to interject one thing before he left for another meeting. He stated that when Paul Milewski, Merlyn Warner and I went to a meeting at EPA headquarters, they were able to convince DuPont and El Paso that the land was more worth while being redeveloped than being closed. My expectation is that the CDA can serve that same function with Wispark on this that you can help the boosters, supporters, help articulate six or eight different visions, but there will be six or eight visions that will be articulated to them and more than anything, the fact that there is citizen support for this project. It will be critical for Wispark thinking that this should be pursued. Having the CDA sit in on, have discussions, share vision, have that back and forth conversation, you have an opportunity to shape how this works out. You have the opportunity to rank alternatives; you have the opportunity to say, gee, I don’t want to see that up here, I would rather see something over here, you have that opportunity now and it can be very time consuming. It can consume a lot of time and energy. Doug was talking about having quality meetings, getting more involved. I can assure you, just from doing the power plant stuff over the past couple years, this will consume a lot of time and if the goal was on January 1 to have something to go, which is when it could happen. If the goal was to have it ready January 1, there is not a lot of time, you are looking at 6 months to pull it all together and someone else is doing 99% of the work. You have the choice to sit back and let it happen or you can really get active and be partners with Wispark and be that local citizen input. It still requires Plan Commission approval and Council approval. This is a real opportunity for the CDA to have a voice in what happens now. You have the opportunity to change their plans, based on your vision.
Mr. Kufrin suggested asking Jerry Franke to come in and one of the things that can easily be done is a charette, where you sit around a table and you talk about what could happen in different spots. That is a way to get some input. We could ask their market people and host some of that activity. There are a lot of things, depending on the amount of time you want to invest. The Council and Mayor would appreciate, if, whatever project comes through if Wispark and staff can say we had some citizen involvement in this plan and it just didn’t come from the back room of some planner, consultant and contractor out of Chicago that the CDA was involved. It would provide some assurance to the aldermen and mayor that there was some thought behind it.
Alderman Grabowski stated that we should define the role of the CDA, is it going to be a board that is going to be decision makers, is it going to be a board that would just take a look at it.
Marge Kanar motioned for adjournment.
Mr. Iwinski second. Meeting adjourned at 9:30 am.